The Clean Body Podcast

Are Your Hair Care Products Toxic?

• Lauren Kelly • Season 1 • Episode 6

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Today on The Clean Body Podcast, host Lauren Kelly talks to one of the co-founders of Jupiter, Ross Goodhart, about toxins found in conventional scalp care products, how genetics, diet and lifestyle habits impact scalp care, and the benefits of active and natural ingredients on hair health.

Get 10% off Jupiter purchases by using the code CLEANBODY10 at www.hellojupiter.com

What you'll learn: 

  • What dandruff is and why it happens (00:16:18)
  • The difference between natural and active ingredients in hygiene products (00:15:26)
  • How probiotics positively impact the scalp microbiome (00:19:45)
  • Toxic ingredients – including parabens and fragrances – found in conventional haircare products that you should avoid (00:21:53)
  • Why your shampoo & conditioner shouldn't last for years (00:24:28)
  • The benefits of apple cider vinegar, coconut oil and aloe vera on your hair (00:29:21)
  • How genetics, diet and lifestyle habits impact scalp care (00:34:34)
  • Why you shouldn't over-exfoliate your scalp (00:57:57)

About Ross Goodhart:

Ross Goodhart Co-CEO and Co-Founder of Jupiter, the first brand focused on delivering high quality, luxe dandruff and scalp care products at approachable-premium prices. He was born and raised in Hawaii, and received his B.B.A from the University of Michigan School of Business in 2002, with an emphasis in Finance, Accounting and Entrepreneurship.

Ross worked in investment banking at Peter J. Solomon Company and then private equity at Siguler Guff & Company. Disenchanted with the finance world, Ross started developing high quality yet affordable home, kitchen and lifestyle products, but felt a disre to develop a brand and business that spoke to him more personally.

For his entire life, Ross had experienced moderate, and sometimes severe, dandruff. He progressively grew more and more frustrated with the available options – smelly formulas that didn’t work, prescription formulas that had numerous toxic ingredients, or products with uninspiring and embarrassing branding. 

Learn more about Ross's story to launch the Jupiter brand during the episode.

About Jupiter:

Jupiter is an elevated and clean line of scientifically-formulated dandruff and hair care products made in collaboration with a resident dermatologist and R&D expert to formulate clean, safe, spa-like products. 

All Jupiter products are paraben-free, sulfate-free, phthalate-free, dye-free, and vegan. They're also safe for color and chemically-treated hair, and all hair types.

The science-based formulas are designed to keep your scalp in balance. Jupiter as done the research, and used only active ingredients when it makes sense to deliver the fastest, best results without compromise.

For more on Ross Goodhart and Jupiter, visit https://hellojupiter.com

For more on Lauren Kelly and The Clean Body Project, visit www.thecleanbodyproject.com. 

I think it was one of the kind of major things that I don't think I really appreciated was how topical products can, you know, can actually seep into your body, into your system and making, finding trace elements, uh, ingredients that people use topically and liver and liver and other, other parts of your body. And I think that was really kind of moving to me. I was always mindful of what I ate, but I probably was. I was not certainly not as mindful about the products I put on my body. Welcome to the clean body podcast. I'm Lauren Kelly as certified nutrition therapist, and soon to be specialized holistic cancer coach with a certification in cancer biology from UC Berkeley. I am so grateful that you're here. This podcast introduces you to the souls and brains behind some of the cleanest food beverage and lifestyle products on the market. Because what you put on in and around your body matters from cookies, bread, and mushroom superfoods to adaptogenic lozenges, clean medicines, organic mattresses, and fluoride-free toothpaste. We'll explore how the brands came to be. How scientific studies drove decisions about ingredients and materials. And most importantly, how the products support all the physical and mental microscopic miracles that occur in your body every minute of every day. Thank you for being here. Let's get this started. Hello everyone. Oh man. I am recording this on a Monday night at 8:22 PM. After working a full day, studying for school, doing an exam, I'm exhausted, but luckily picking this podcast is one of the most favorite things I've ever done in my life. So let's do this. Shall we? So before we launch into this episode, and I tell you all about who I'm speaking to and why I chose to speak to him, I want you to take a second and I want you to listen to the products I'm going to list and Talia how many you use on a regular basis. Ready? Toothpaste, shaving cream shampoo, conditioner body. So facial cleanser, hair gel, hairspray, leaving conditioner, deodorant, mouthwash, cologne, perfume, body lotion, body oil, sunscreen, hand sanitizer, makeup, chapstick. Sunless Tanner nail Polish. Okay. Okay. How many did you get now? I wanted you to do that because many people balk at the idea of buying cleaner hygiene products and not to call men out. But a lot of those people are often men. They say they don't use that many products. It's just a couple of small things that can't make much of a difference, but consider how many items you just counted that you expose to your body regularly. If not every day, it builds up. You are layering product upon product, on your skin and skin being the amazing organ that it is. It can absorb up to 60% of what you put on it. That means those products you use only a little bit of the toxins they contain are being stored somewhere in your body, probably in your fat or causing excess detoxification stress, which can lead to nutrient deficiencies, which leads to a whole host of other things. By acting like synthetic hormones and preventing normal hormone function. These products can interrupt everything from your energy levels and sleep to your immune and brain function. So that is why today on the clean body podcast, I am talking to someone who's learned about all of this firsthand. His name is Ross Goodhart. He is the co CEO and co-founder of Jupiter. The first brand focused on delivering high quality dandruff and scalp care products made with dermatologist tested, clean and elevated ingredients formulated from scratch without sulfates, parabens, phthalates, artificial, dyes, fragrances, or other harmful chemicals. Rostin always work in the hair care industry. In fact, he spent a lot of time in his career working in investment banking and then private equity, managing funds focused on consumer and tech investments in emerging markets. It was when he became disenchanted with the finance world and disconnected from the end consumer that he started to make changes and venture into the entrepreneur world. This is such a great conversation and such an important one. So many people suffer from dandruff than we even talk about. Hey, I admit it. I suffer from dandruff. Sometimes our Scouts can be drive the environment even around our heads changes the health of the microbiome on our scalps. So it's a really interesting conversation and Ross was kind enough to offer the clean body podcast listeners 10% off any Jupiter products. So if you use the code clean body 10 at checkout on hello, jupiter.com, you can get that 10% discount. If you liked this episode, make sure you review it, rate it, subscribe, send it to your friends, shoot me a message on Instagram. You can catch me at holistic Lauren Kelly, or you can follow the clean body project on Instagram. All right. That's it for me? Let's jump into this interview. All right. Well, I am so excited to have you here as honestly, this has been one of the episodes I've been most looking forward to because I'm just so pumped for what Jupiter's doing, both from a product perspective and just a messaging and lifestyle perspective. So we have so much to talk about. Um, but before we jump into the Jupiter brand, I just want to know what your personal journey to kind of this health and wellness realm was. I find that a lot of people who work in this industry have their own unique story. Yeah. So, um, you know, my background is, um, I have, I was born and raised in Hawaii and, uh, you know, grew up living and living quite healthy, being really active and, uh, being, being pretty mindful of the foods I ate the products I use after leaving Michigan or after leaving Michigan and then New York, about 18 years ago. Now in my hand needs to try to get a little bit, a little bit more sun during this, uh, during these months. But, um, I've, uh, I've about five years ago after working in private equity for many years, I left to start my own, uh, set of brands and kind of developing products that what was out there. And really with a kind of a major focus, um, on getting people the most out of the products that they're buying. So often times people buy products, they use it incorrectly. You may say they don't work. So it's really working on helping them with that. Most of the products I built and built up over the, those five years were one-off type lifestyle products, but a lot of them even had a kitchen tools brand. Um, a lot of the products were around kind of being able to know what was in your food, um, and you know, being able to create, create kind of cleaner products at home. Um, so kind of going, if you'd like, I can kind of jump into the story of Jupiter, but you know, at least, at least my journey was, uh, I've been, I've been a dander suffer in my, my entire life and really frustrated with the products that were out there that either didn't smell good, it looked good. It didn't work for me. I was embarrassed to have showers, um, and even going to dermatologists, they recommended a lot of products that ultimately, you know, may work, um, at times, but some of those, especially the prescription ones I didn't want to be using for, for an extended period of time because of the harshness of the ingredients or harshness of some of the inactive ingredients that were in those products. So I've always been mindful of that. And because of that, having, you know, probably wasn't as compliant in using them as I should have. Um, so again, the, uh, because of that, the solutions ultimately, um, I knew there had to be a better way, better way to attack this problem that affects 50 to 75% of the world 20% all day, every day. And, uh, so that's, that's where it kind of in seven, 2017, started looking into creating a solution that spoke to me more personally. I wasn't embarrassed having to shower. Um, I understood how and when to use it at clean and good ingredients smell good and, um, really felt good. And I think that's, that's something that oftentimes is overlooked in some of these products that are, um, that are also efficacious as you want it to feel good so that people remain compliant, use it, how they're supposed to and get them. Oh man, I have so many things to say after all of that. Um, thank you for sharing all that. I was actually going to out you as a dandruff suffer. So you beat me to the punch, but I am also a dangerous suffer and this is something I love so much about Jupiter. You're removing this unspoken shame around it. And I never really thought about the fact that there is such shame associated with having dandruff. And you're so embarrassed and Jupiter is kind of just bringing that to the forefront. Like, Hey, this is a thing. And people, I feel like I'm a pretty blunt person, but that's just nothing I ever would have like picked out of my brain like, Oh, I'm super embarrassed to talk about my dandruff and you guys are putting it right out there in a really bold way and almost making, having dandruff cool, because you've got a cool product that people can use that, like you said, makes people feel good when they're using it. And just being a part of the community. I think the community you're trying to build is also really awesome. Um, but before we dive too deep into that also by the way, Hawaii, must've been a rough childhood, my husband is there right now. I'm very jealous. Uh, but what inspired, I actually think I saw a little tidbit about this on the website and I thought it was interesting. What inspired the name? Jupiter. Yeah. So I think this actually goes to kind of an interesting point of how, how this all got started as well. I had my, my journey, um, my business partner, Robbie, um, had his own kind of independent journey. I'm going through having an experience that would exacerbate his Bandra saying there has to be a better solution. Um, and kind of my story was that while I was confident in making, getting a product made and getting it sold, given my history, doing this and other other brands, I knew my background was not in kind of a strong branding and storytelling. Um, whereas robbing my business partner has just a very strong kind of demand of, of the brand and storytelling space. And, uh, and I knew that we really needed something with a strong name and then a strong brand really stand out and be something special. Um, and not just be kind of looked at as a, as a product company. So, you know, we went through a lot of iterations of kind of branding and brand names. We wanted a name that ultimately it was, we didn't want to make up a new name that no one had ever heard of. Um, we wanted it to sound science-y, but not medicinal. Um, so that, that kind of could be, could actually pair the cosmetic side, but also allow people to kind of feel like this is actually an effective product, existing products of many of the existing products in the market are very medicinal sounding. And, but we wanted to, we wanted to take into the info, the sciences science and nature space is cool. Space is aspirational. We wanted our brand to be aspirational. We don't, we don't lean into the space element of the brand too much, but every once in a while have a little fun around it. Um, there's also some kind of it's, it's relatively a gender and a relatively gender neutral name, which was important for us as we were launching. And then later in our exploration of the name, we started hearing some like really interesting facts about, you know, from an astronomical perspective, uh, that, uh, because they're actually that civilization, civilization is able to develop on earth was because of the plant. It actually blocks, um, Los earth from a lot of us, what we call split space flakes and mediators asteroids. Um, there's another kind of really interesting one, which we don't want to take credit for, but it happened after we, uh, after we came up with the name, but there was an article written about the storm that's been brewing on the head of Jupiter for 80 years, which is, seems kind of very better. Scientists were saying it was starting to break apart and the scientists are claiming that it was starting to flake for us. Again, some of these little, you know, that's astronomical side on astrological side. And it was something that, you know, a lot of people really do believe in and, uh, Jupiter's, God's pretty jovial God. So we really wanted a brand that had, that was, that was strong, but also a kind of happy and uplifting. Yeah. The name game of choosing a brand name is so difficult. Um, it kinda just has to come to you. It has to be like a spark of inspiration sometimes. And I think the universe, um, brings you the right name. And it sounds like the universe literally brought you space flakes and. I have to get it to Robbie. That it's be honest because while I liked the name at the beginning, I honestly, I couldn't, uh, it was, it was hard for me until the brand started to really develop to really internalize it. He had, he had, he had the confidence and it, which was, uh, which is important because it got it got me kind of past that uncertainty. And then now that we're live, I couldn't imagine being in different. Yeah. I mean, it's tough. It's do you go for the low hanging fruit that people are searching for? Or do you take a risk and choose a creative name like Jupiter? I think you guys have found a winner, but you, uh, you mentioned that you wanted it to also reflect the science. So that's a good transition for us to kind of talk about the Jupiter products and the thoughts that went into the ingredients that you use and how they compare to other products that are in the, so, um, maybe we could just jump in with you sharing with us kind of your journey in, I know you said that what you put in your body was always a focus growing up in Hawaii and throughout your entire life, but throughout this process, I imagine you learned some new things about the products that are used in our hygiene, um, products that we use all the time. Um, and so I'd love for you to just share kind of what that evolution of education was for you. Maybe some things that really surprised you and stayed with you, um, and are still prevalent in your mind today. Yeah, I think, I think it was one of the kind of major things that I don't think I really appreciated was how topical products can, you know, can actually seep into your body, into your system and trace elements of, uh, ingredients that people use topically and liver and liver and other blood and other parts of your body. And I think that was really kind of moving to me. I was always mindful of what I ate, but I probably was, I was not certainly not as mindful about the products I put on my body. Um, and so that kind of led to that led to, uh, you know, robbing, I really focusing on formulating a product that was, that was a clean product where we are really mindful about every pro every ingredient that's in our, in our products. We're not claiming that we're all organic, we're not, and they're not a natural brand. And, you know, partially the reason being is we, um, we use an active ingredient in our product and kind of go into that, but, you know, effectively the underlying cause of dandruff is an overgrowth or an overgrowth fungus on your, on your body and overproduction of oil or even an underproduction of oil, but effectively in order, in order to really truly treat the underlying cause, um, of dandrich you need to use an active ingredient. That's an ingredient Def the FDA has 50 plus years of studies proving its effectiveness in controlling the underlying cause of death. And so there are five to six active ingredients that the FDA has approved. Some of them are more toxic than others. Some of them are more suitable for daily use or a little more flexible in how you can use and how you can use those products. So in our, in our formulation, every ingredient that we chose, we wanted to make sure that had a purpose to insistent that it was effective and that it was as clean as possible. So we do use a lot of natural ingredients in our formulations, but we also rely on the active to actually treat the underlying cause. So we've, we've chosen to go with St. Corinthian. Um, it's an ingredient that has some amazing efficacies, uh, studies behind it for many years tends to be one that is most suitable for daily use. Um, as well as one that is least toxic amongst the, amongst the actives. We actually another active as well is a cell soak acid, which actually do have in a non kind of active concentration in one of our products as well. Um, that kind of helps pair with, with in formulation. We effectively started with, with the active ingredient. That was, that was most critical taking control of the underlying cause of dander. And then on top of that, that's where we really built out a beautiful cosmetic experience. So it was, uh, layering on, uh, inactive ingredients, but more natural ingredients like coconut oil or algae extract or oatmeal or even probiotics our entire formulation is. And our brand is really focused on not just data, but all really just as overall a scalp. But the focus at first is on Dan because we want to make sure that we are a brand that people understand is formulated to work. So we wanted to make sure that it did work, but that it also had, you know, a bunch of really good ingredients that have clinical data proving. It helps you overall efficacy of the active, but also helps with symptoms and just creates a really overall good experience. I think a lot of people probably when you said a dandruff is caused by a fungus on your scout probably were like, Oh my God gross what there's fungus on my body. Uh, so I just want to throw out there that there is more fungus and bacteria in your body than there are cells. Totally normal fungus is actually quite, you know, the right kind of fungus is very healthy for you. I actually did an interview with, Oh, mushrooms, all about mushroom and fun guy, super food. So, um, just to call it, don't freak out. You might have fungus growing on your scalp, but you're fine. Um, you mentioned probiotics, which I had never considered probiotics for your hair and your scalp, which is kind of silly. Um, but it just never really occurred to me. How, how do probiotics work for scalp health? I think it goes back to the whole point of actually finding a balance scalp. So, um, you know, as you mentioned, everyone has fungus and bacteria all over your body and kind of healthy individuals are healthy situations. Those are typically in balance. Um, but when they're imbalanced is when, um, you can end up having the redness, the irritation, um, the flaking associated with dandruff. So, uh, effectively probiotics, which are in a number of our products, um, we call it out on our conditioner, but it's actually a number of our products, um, helps to create a balance microbiome on the scalp. So again, it doesn't it's perspective. The point is not to go and kill off the bacteria and fungus, but it's to create a kind of an environment as probiotics are, tend to be, be used now very successful in a lot of different forms, both ingestible topical, um, to create a, to create a balanced microbiome that will help to help with the overall kind of control of the underlying causes of dandruff. So, you know, we have, this are, we have five formulas in our, in our, in our, in our set right now, as well as a brush. Um, and all of those products are focused on scalp care. Everything that we formulated is not like a conditioner. We have most conditioners historically have been formulated just for the hair and the instructions where you didn't just put it on the ends of your hair. Um, we formulated it so that it is both good for the scalp and hair, so that you're getting benefits, um, benefits of the scalp, which leads to healthy hair. The microbiome is my favorite word. So every time you said it, I smiled because I just got excited. Cause it's my favorite thing to talk about. Um, but something that is really big for the Jupiter brand is you don't use fragrances, um, or preservatives, I believe, or perhaps you use a little bit of preservatives, but I kind of want to dig into that because I don't think people realize fragrances, it's one word, but it's not one thing. Um, so let's break down the myths a little bit around fragrances and why Jupiter decided not to use Ellie synthetic fragrances and their products. Yeah. So I think there is, you know, to your point, there's fragrances and fragrances tend to be kind of associated with synthetic fragrances. And I think that was probably another one of, kind of the major learnings. Okay. My dogs are outside whining at the door. So I understand that. Yeah. One of the things that I learned was one of the dirty secret in the cosmetics industry is fragrance is where a lot of brands hide, know a lot of, kind of bad ingredients. So you will find a lot of preservatives, you'll find parabens, you'll find, uh, parabens and fragrances that you might not see in the, on the back of a, of a product label. And I think that's something that people should be aware of as they often they might say, I don't want pair a pair of it. So I don't want valets or any other ingredients in my products. They look at an ingredient list and they don't see, don't see it on there. And they immediately assume that it's not there and it's safe. But if you actually look at the underlying fragrance, you will find in there. So that was something that was really kind of interesting to us and why we ended up going with instead of a synthetic fragrance, we use all, all a squeezed essential oils for an all natural or an all natural set. And that was really important for us because first of all, the number of the essential levels are very beneficial for overall scalp health, but it creates a more kind of natural, um, spotlight smell, um, which was something that we really wanted to focus on. We didn't want it to feel synthetic or smell synthetic, which for some may, may kind of keep them away from, from being as compliant with the product. So we wanted it to feel, feeling, smell really, really kind of Lux and wonderful. Um, and that's, we did use a lot of, I would say more expensive ingredients in our formulation, um, to make sure that we, we were able to achieve that. But since there are synthetics that are, that are, that are totally safe. Um, but uh, our decision was to try to stay away from that. And that was kind of a calling part of our brand. Yeah, like you said, there are safe ones, but my rule of thumb is to essentially stay away from them as well. Even when I go to the healthier grocery stores and I look at their product lines, I turn the label around and I see if there is fragrance in it because they can have up to 500 different ingredients and compounds and just fragrance and you don't even know what those are. And that's, that's kind of scary to me. I want to know what I'm putting. And then to your question around preservatives, we basically effectively, we do have some preservatives and they're just low, low toxicity ingredients. And the point being is you want to make sure that our products are, are going to be safe and stable on the shelf. So two of our products, our shampoo and our serum are both OTC products. So they have to go through all of the necessary testing that is required by the FDA, which involves going through preservative testing, um, as well as, as well as some other, other tests that are required by the FDA. Um, we, we put all of our products through that same level of testing, but two of them were required by the FDA. Yeah. Something I heard that I thought was a good point when I was doing research for this interview was if you have a glass of water by your bed, right. And it sits there for three months, are you going to drink it at three months later? And the answer is no. And so with shampoos and conditioners, you do need some kind of preservative in there because they can sit on the shelf for some time. So you need to keep them in some kind of stable form that people feel comfortable using them. And I think what's important for us. And I think this again, differentiates us in our business model of being a direct consumer brand, um, and not being, say a retail brand is at the moment. And I think we do have aspirations of going into retail in the future is a lot of the existing products that are, that are on retail shelves now, um, have preservatives that effectively make their, their useful life almost indefinite. And to me, that starts to feel a little bit, uh, a little bit scary to know that a product can effectively, you know, sit on the shelf forever. I know for rides hearted, uh, where I'd started Jupiter by my parents had had dandruff shampoos and our guest bathrooms just cause they were like the kind of chancellor that everyone kind of would use and feel comfortable using big name brands. You know, I remember when I, my parents moved, they took their shampoo with them from Hawaii and then moved to Florida. And I, I saw the expiration date of these products. It was eight, 10 years ago and it's still sitting in their shower. Faculty guy finally gotten rid of them, but it just kind of made me kind of realize how bad some of those preservatives really are. Um, and or at least how strong they are. People can have their own opinions as to how safe they are. But, um, that's something that we wanted to make sure that our products were going to be safe and being a direct consumer brand. You don't have to worry about having excess inventory sitting on shelves and then ending up in dollar stores or other, other retail establishments where they're around forever. Um, we're, we're, we're able to keep inventory, um, and ensure that we're not having products that are in need extensive amounts of, uh, uh, preservatives to last forever. So how long do your products last? What's the expiration lifecycle? We currently, what we can claim based on FDA testing is two years. Um, now our products will last longer than that, but we try to, we try to say that two years is generally where it's going to be most efficacious. Um, the, the likelihood is that they, they do for me, um, much longer than that or longer than that. But, um, I would not expect they're going to last forever. Yeah, well, hopefully we're all showering regularly and using two butter products. So when we do that, so I don't think two years is too short of a time. I think, uh, you'd go through quite faster than that. Um, but let's dig in a little bit to looking at my notes, what we've talked about. Um, are there any specific, Oh, okay. I had a question about this. So a lot of brands and bigger brands now do have natural products called out on their labels. We have coconut oil, we have Alovera, but they also have all of those other compounds as preservatives, as fragrances, a ton of ingredients that can frankly, cause hormonal imbalances in your body. And there's even studies that they can contribute to tumor growth in cancer and all sorts of things that you don't want. So how can listeners listening to this episode right now, kind of see through that BS when they're at a grocery store, um, if they have to pick a product there and it's calling out Alovera or coconut oil, do those good products in those, um, products that contain other toxins, do the bad outweigh the good or what's your advice for shoppers? Yeah, so I I'd say that those ingredients are, are good. Um, it doesn't, but at the same time, I wouldn't say the outweigh the bad. Um, there are also, I think a point to note is that not all natural ingredients are created equal, so you'll see, you'll see call-outs for certain natural that maybe heavily processed versions of, of the, of the original ingredient. So you might build, say coconut oil, but it may be processed through a lot of different forms in which it's not actually even as, as identifiable, as coconut oil, as, as brands that are more focused on, um, kind of the source sources, their, of their ingredients. So I'd say having those ingredients are great. They can, for us, even all of our natural ingredients, we don't claim that they individually are going to get rid of your dandruff. Um, and why we also really try to dissuade people from kind of these at home remedies. Um, again, while, while some of those natural griots like the coconut oil or an Apple cider vinegar or other ingredients you may have in your cabinets can potentially help with the underlying causes or maybe the symptoms if you're not formulating them appropriately. So you're not a chemist, you're not Mexican the right with the right water. Those ingredients can, if, if not balance can burn, your scalp can clog your pores and cause actually more, more issues than they're actually solving. So I think, um, again, just, you know, straight back to your point is those ingredients can be good, but, um, the likelihood is that, you know, I think again, just focus on the back of the bottles. Um, you can run ingredients through EWG and environmental working group and other and other channels. I wouldn't take those all as gospel, but I would say that, uh, it's a way to kind of verify and check. Um, you will see also ingredients on the back of bottles that may sound bad just because they're scientific. Um, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad. Um, so I think you do have to do your research because some ingredients are just the technical forms of natural ingredients or of other innovative, low toxic ingredients. Um, so I think it, it does require a bit of a bit of focus on and kind of research into those products. So it's a little bit, so they get the answers. It's a bit hard to just look at the back of the label or look at a bottle and know that, uh, you know, know that it's safe. Um, it might take a little bit of time to do your research, um, as you insisted that it fragrances tend to be something that, or the term fragrance, um, can be a place that things are hidden. Um, but it might, it might, it might be effective. It might be clean, might be a clean fragrance, but just be mindful of that when you see it in the back of bottles. Well coloring too, right. You know, I don't, I don't need pink shampoo. I'm just fine with my champ. Some of those pink shampoos are going to be, you know, maybe through, you know, natural coloring, you know, when we formulated our products, it was about being, um, as clean and sure up to the kind natural, the color of the ingredients as possible. Um, and I think that there's something about that giving, having consumers understand or feel at least that it is a, it is a cleaner product. Doesn't have a bunch of unnecessary kind of jazz for color that, uh, you know, makes it look good. Um, but, uh, that, that was just ours. Our, our choice, uh, the extra dyes are just, again, another added ingredient. Right? I mean, it would be kind of cool if Jupiter shampoo sparkled, like all Jupiter purple, you know, but then I'm not sure I would trust it. I'm glad that you called out the singular, uh, products that won't necessarily like coconut oil or Apple cider vinegar that they could burn your scalp, or they could clog your pores actually just on influencers saying that she puts Apple cider vinegar in her hair once a week and it makes it all shiny and strong. And I was like, Oh, maybe I'll try that, but good point. Um, and every, every day. It's, you have to be really mindful of it. And especially for people who do have dandruff, it does require there's no, there's no cure for it. It requires ongoing needs. And so, uh, you may, if you're using something, you try something else out. It can just, it can just disrupt the, again, going back to disrupt the microbiome of your scalp. And, um, and actually even if it doesn't burn it, it can cause imbalance or a longer-term imbalance throws off the balance of that microbiome. Yeah. I say it in every single interview, every body is different. So what's working for that. Influencer may not work for me because the microbiome on my head is different than the microbiome on her head. But through everything you've learned through this journey with Jupiter, what have you identified, if anything, as some of the root causes of dandruff? Yeah. So a death can be driven by both genetic and lifestyle. So I'm actually somebody who is my dandruff is both genetic and lifestyle. Um, and Robbie is more lifestyle. So, um, while it can be impacted by genetics, a lot of other factors such as your diet, your stress levels, your travel, um, your exercise, either exercising a lot or not enough. Um, your, uh, living in an urban environment, a lot of, a lot of factors that people, I don't think really understand affect dandruff. And you may use a dander solution that has an active ingredient and it could be effective, but because you're not taking into account your diet or stress levels, uh, you could be, uh, you could be causing it. You could be kind of counteracting the benefits as a big part of our brand is really around focusing on education, uh, to the consumer. We want to make sure that we're not, we are like your friend lose sources of resource for, um, what is actually causing your underlying or what's actually causing D'Andra. Um, that's, that's something, I think both my, this one and I, in many people we did when we were launching the brand and interviews and people were saying, they didn't know why they had it. And then once we told them, do you know that your diet, it could be gluten, dairy, spicy foods, shoulders, um, can all have an impact and impact each person differently. So, um, we, uh, we really focus on dandruff care and scalp care holistic approach. So you have to really not just use our products effectively and continuously, or, uh, use them compliantly, be compliant with the use of it. But you do need to be mindful of all of these other lifestyle factors that can ultimately affect your D'Andre. So it's meditative it, bring down the stress levels, be mindful of your shutters and your spicy foods, gluten and dairy. And it's all different for each individual, no different than how people have had been impacted in their acne care with understanding that, uh, you know, you can use a product, but if you're, if you're not mindful of what you're putting in your body, or you're not, um, or the right output, the right outcome. Right. And it sounds so overwhelming for people who are just kind of dipping their toes into the holistic industry, or even just health and wellness. The fact that, okay, it could be the bread ate yesterday. It could be the protein bar that had the sugar. It could be, you know, the spicy food that I consumed or even the lotion I'm putting on my skin. It sounds really overwhelming, but it's not too overwhelming. Once you just start taking one step at a time and educating yourself and paying more mindful attention to how you feel after you consume things, maybe keep food diaries. It's not as scary. Um, but. And you'll start to recognize that the nights, so the days you're drinking more, you'll you'll feel, feel that it's aspirate or, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of people that we spicy foods and the next day or sugary foods making champagne, um, and then realizing that it gets worse the next day. And so it's, we, we don't, we don't expect that everything's going to be perfect overnight, and you're going to figure out your body perfectly overnight, but just little incremental, incremental changes. Uh we'll, we'll, we'll have a pretty noticeable impact. Yeah. And you'll always fall off the bandwagon. I've been on my own health and wellness journey for years. Then I am trying to cultivate that inner intelligence and intuitive eating. And I still eat pizza once a week. Like it's not going to happen. Yeah. I mean, I, again, and we're also not trying to say that you have to change your entire lifestyle. Um, we don't want this to be overwhelming. We want it to be easy for people to use so that they again remain compliant. That's ultimately the most important thing. And we just want individuals to know that in addition to using the products, if you're mindful about these other parts of your life, you may actually see even better results than you would expect. So how do you, or how are you currently, or how are you planning on continuing those communications with consumers so that it's not just a product that they're buying and putting in their bathroom, it's kind of more of a community. It sounds like that's being built that can help them achieve the health goals that they might have. So what are some of your plans around that? Yeah. So before we even launched, we launched on our website about 50 plus pieces of content around scalp dandruff, and all of that kind of lifestyle choices as we wanted to really be like your go-to education source around scalp. So that's where we started in getting that information out there has been important. Now, in addition to that, after someone does purchase product, or even if they get into kind of our email welcome series, um, there'll be over time, there'll be introduced to a number of kind of emails around kind of health and wellness. And, and really what's really important for us is, well, we didn't want to become just a, another consumer brand that you buy our product. And then all you hear from us afterwards is buy this, buy this, buy this another promotion. We certainly are going to offer those, but we want to make sure that we've had an ongoing communication with customers. And, um, that's, what's really, you know, that's really how we use our email marketing is to make over time that, uh, they're gonna, you know, there are other factors that play in their overall scalp. I think that's the most powerful thing brands can do is kind of try to become an ally in their consumers' lives, not just, you know, try to go for their money and their wallet and their wallet share. It's really becoming like a companion in life and figuring out. Even in our social channels, like we were also really focused on it, not just being, not just being pretty images or not just being a promotion, but being educational as much as possible. We're also launching shortly on a Facebook community group because we do think it's really, really important that there is a source for people to, to, to be able to ask questions and learn about the underlying causes of dandruff. And also be part of a community, understand that 50 to 75% of the world gets standard at some point in their lives. And other people are dealing with and frustrated with it at varying points in their lives and various severity. Um, and that's, that's been really important. Uh, you know, when we, when we launched the, we wanted, wanted to make sure that it was a successful brand, but we also wanted to make sure that we really, we built a community to really focus on stigmatizing the condition. Um, and I think, you know, we, we had spoken previously and I mentioned to you, you know, in addition to that, you know, what, what the stigma is often done in the past, you know, it causes a lot of kind of shame and, uh, um, shame and individuals that have it. Um, and that's why when we, when we launched the brand, it was a big part of, part of our brand is not just to be successful, but also be a platform to allow people to learn and also to bring awareness to a number of mental health challenges that people face because of their dandruff, you know, as a high schooler, I, I felt that felt that chain having dandruff and it was with. I wish I knew more about, about it, um, at that time. And even when I was in finance, wearing, wearing a suit every day and feeling embarrassed about the flakes on my shoulder. Now, now I can wear dark, dark clothing because, but it was, it was something I, I struggled with. So we want to make sure that we're creating a platform, a place for people to feel comfortable about where they are. Um, uh, and that they're not alone. You just triggered me by saying high school. Let's not go back there. Oh man, I guess it wasn't high school. It was more middle school. My eye. You can't tell now, um, some days you can, but I have extremely curly hair. Um, which a lot of people with curly hair have dandruff issues because we have really dry textures. Um, and my nickname was the vacuum because people could throw things in my hair and it would suck it up. Now it's funny. Uh, another nickname was the Furby, but I'll bring the, I'll bring the curly hair out one of these days. Um, but I think that's really powerful. I had the troll doll, a big puffy. Childhood. That's so hard. Uh, do you have any testimonials, um, or like what's the average customer feedback that you guys are getting from people who have suffered from D'Andra for quite some time? Yeah. I mean, we, I think that was really where Robbie and I knew we had a business was when we started to get those reviews, the testimonials or reviews on our products have been And I think that's, um, that really makes, makes our day clearly it's as a new business, we just launched last may, uh, during the, during the pandemic, uh, pretty, pretty challenging time to launch a brand. It was risky, but I think it took time to formulate and test and get our products where they are. But we, uh, you know, once you have a few months in and we started to get a lot of really, really great reviews and seeing that it was impacting people, really having a huge impact on their life, um, that's where it just made, it, made it entirely worthwhile. So despite all the challenges we'll be facing on a day-to-day basis, those, those nice reviews, those just comments, someone writing in on chat, or just a quick email, ends up making it totally worthwhile for us. And that's where we really knew there was a business where we knew you were actually transforming people's lives. Well, you're building something from the heart, which I think is not unique. You know, people look for a gap in the marketplace so they can make money. And obviously you want to make money. We all want to make money, but you really are putting the people that you serve at the center of everything that you're doing and ensuring you're creating a confidence that they can trust you, and they can trust that they're buying your product and they're buying what they think they're buying. Um, so at that point. Even on our quiz, so we have, we have a quiz on our site that we developed with our Part of that is to allow the sewers to go through kind of a journey that will recommend the best set of products for them. You don't want another thing is we don't want to sell something to someone that they're just, they don't need. So it's really about aligning them with the right set of products. But what it also does is it allows us to learn more about who our actual customers are and what they actually really want. So going forward, as we develop new products, we have a lot more insights, not just from our small little friends circles, but from people who are actual users and our, you know, our folks are telling us that they have a lot of curly hair, or what we found was when we, when we launched the brand, it is a unisex brand and it's great for, for all sexes, but we wanted to make sure that, um, well, what ended up happening is we found that we're actually probably about 80% female right now, in terms of the demographic of our customers. Now that could be that 80% of them are using. It could be that they're buying on behalf of their partners. Potentially. I know my husband's going to use up all my products. Yeah. We know that's the case. So that's why we probably leaned a little bit towards the, towards target on the female demographic. But, um, I think, you know, because we've formulated a cleaner product, that is also what was a big, big thing for us, the product that was safe for color and chemically treated hair, that was something that we got in really early, early periods, where we were doing focus groups and testings hearing how much demand there was actually for, for that demographic. Something that was really, really important for us when we formulated the products. And also how we can talk about our brand is that it is safe for chemistry and culture are 50% of females color, chemically treat the large market of people who effectively really been excluded from the dandruff conversation because the products were not really right for their hair types or their, their treatments. Um, and when we, that was very important to us in the beginning when we tested our shampoos, but specifically to make sure that it was indeed safer chemicals in color treated hair, what we ended up coming out, what ended up coming back, which was really wonderful as it was, but it also came back that it reduced care breakage by 30%. So again, that goes back to kind of early conversations with using really good, good ingredients is that you're really nourishing the hair. And I think that's something that dander shampoos have always had this kind of connotation of being good for maybe getting rid of your, of your dandruff, but your hair would be a mess. And so the fact that our, our shampoo, which is getting a new dandruff is also was really important for us. I think it's interesting to think about the dichotomy of coloring and chemically treating your hair and then using Jupiter products, because I would imagine that those services of coloring your hair, which I do too. It's a female thing, uh, causes some irritation or inflammation on the scalp because those chemicals can't be good for our heads. And then the Jupiter comes in and kind of counteract some of those things by rebalancing the microbiome on the scalp, by soothing, some of the inflammation that's occurring with the coconut oil or the biotin or, uh, oatmeal. Um, are there any specific ingredients that you specifically want to call out and kind of explain their super power, um, and how they benefit the hair? Yeah, I mean, look, I, we, we try not to, we try not to oversell the value of any one ingredient and formulation are really complicated. Um, and finding a balance of ingredients is, is, is, is challenging. And it took us two, two plus years to, to get to where we are. Um, but I think again, the call-outs are the active ingredients, which is what we use to control the underlying cause of dandruff. Um, but then a lot, again, as I mentioned, the algae extract and green tea and aloe Vera, uh, we haven't volcanic Ash in our, in our scout mask and purifying, which is amazing. It's an amazing natural from camp chemical exfoliants remove kind of excess build up in oil and all of the environmental buildup and product buildup that you have throughout the week. So it's, it's really, you know, in each of our products, we, there are some kind of core ingredients that we'll use across them, um, that are really good for scalp health probiotics, but also kind of throwing in kind of unique ingredients, each of those products to really kind of the overall effectiveness of those products. So we also have used an ingredient called DECA linked glycol, which technical task sounds like another chemical, it's actually a very low toxicity ingredient. That's really helpful in balancing the microbiome and there's clinical data that along with an active ingredient, um, kind of helps with the overall efficacy. And again, there's only certain kind of claims we can make as a brand that's regulated by the FDA or at products regulated by the FDA. Um, but all of these ingredients combined being very mindful of ingredients, we choose combines really good overall kind of scalp your character experience. Yeah. And people do have to remember too, it's not just scalp and hair care experience. It is a three 60 experience because your skin absorbs up to 60% of what you put on it. And so those compounds are going into your body and they're either causing benefit or they're wrecking havoc. Um, so you want to try to get some healthy stuff. Uh, but one second, volcanic Ash, are you collecting that yourself? And do you need help? Or. I wish that was the case. Uh, but, uh, unfortunately fortunately not. Uh, but it's, uh, it really, it's a pretty, it's pretty wonderful, like grayish and a foaming foaming experience. I dunno. It's, it's really, it's pretty, it's pretty awesome. Um, people are really liking, it's a pretty unique product. It's a nice kind of weekly reset. Well, if you ever are making a volcanic Ash excursion and you need volunteers, let me know. Um, but that's, you know, before we wrap this up with a couple of quick hit questions, you do have other products, but beyond shampoo and conditioners, and you've mentioned them here and there, but let's just, um, outline those a little bit more. So the listeners know what other things you are selling on your website. For sure. So, as I mentioned, so we have our shampoo to start with over the counter OTC shampoo is using a bunch of natural, innovative ingredients to kind of help control the underlying cause of dandruff, the conditioner, which is a cosmetic conditioner. Again, still focused on scalp health with probiotics. It's got microbiome. Our third product is it's called the restoring Sara. This is a leave on treatment and OTC product has and to leave on treatment for people that more oily scalp, more severe, or where the routine of washing your hair as frequently as we'd recommend, which is probably three to four times a week, you understand that's not going to fit into the routine of everybody. And we wanted to create a suite of products that is mindful of that. And so the restorative serum is kind of useful for those people to leave on. When you get out of the shower or multiple up to four times per day, you just leave it, put it onto the scalp, you rub it in and it helps control the underlying cause of dandruff until you get a chance to wash. So it's helpful. We wanted to make sure that we're, we're creating an, uh, flexible system for all different demographic groups and different routines. Um, the fourth product is called our soothing elixir. This is really to help with those dry spots throughout the day. It's small dropper. You throw it in your purse and if you have that, any of that kind of symptoms, so it's not a treatment itself. It's not getting rid of the causal dandruff, but it can help with leaving symptoms associated with it temporarily. It can feel red, which is like a funny, it, you can feel that that irritation and again helps with just cooling it down. Um, and then we have the purifying mask from scout, which is really our chemical weekly exfoliant. So you'd use that before you use the shampoo conditioner and get rid of that throughout the week. Again, a product that individuals are not going to be washing their hair as frequently as we recommend, it's a good product to be able to get rid of any of the buildup and start fresh. And then the last product is a brush massage and brush scalp brush, and that's real purpose. That's our physical exfoliant. So that's again, continuous to help with removing excess buildup oil flakes on the scalp helps massage the scalp, which is really good for promoting blood flow to scout, which is good for healthy hair. Um, and it also just feels really good. And lastly, it, um, what we always try to promote is to not scratch your scalp. If you scratch your scalp, you can create open wounds, which can cause a bit more of an issue. So using the brush is gentle enough to be able to alleviate the itchiness, but it's not, it's going to protect you from really down. Do these products build on one another. If you use them together, it's something I've always seen on labels, you know, like use our conditioner next, or use our serum next. And I'm like, is that just a ploy to get me to buy all of your products? Or is there some scientific facts behind that? Yeah, no, I mean these, they are a system, so we we've separated out the shampoo and conditioner because there's been, you know, over the years, this move, or at least the option of having these two in ones. And, you know, there's a lot of research that breaking them out is going to be much more effective shampoo, Tash, clean the hair conditioner to nourish and hydrate when you, uh, when you put them together, you're kind of getting like a little bit lesser of each of the, um, of each of the components. So for us, that that's really important why we separated, if you can get overall efficacy and benefits your out. Um, and then yeah, the, the, the serum is, is really an add on to the shampoo and conditioner, and again, will help the overall effectiveness of the treatment. Uh, and then the other products are really, again, just additional ad-ons that are not, not needed for everybody. We don't, we don't want people to buy products that are not right for them. Um, but like the elixir and the mask or the cosmetic products, there's wonderful experience. Um, they, you know, we, we do think that the mask before, um, you know, once a week before a shampoo and conditioner is the best way to kind of get rid of everything. Uh, that's been a Hunter scalp and your hair, and then start off with the shampoo conditioner, which ongoing treatment. So, yeah, I think his point is, is that we, uh, there is a system here. We recommend either shampoo, conditioner, the snapshot of conditioned serum or the whole set. Um, those are three sets that we offer right now. Um, and our, but we do understand that individuals are gonna want to buy, um, one, one product here, one product there, and that that's okay. Um, but we do want to make sure that people are mindful of the fact that they may, if they use our products, but then they use other products that, uh, that could end up irritating yourself. They're going to get less. So that could also come with style and products, you know, any, anything new you're you're putting on your hair or your spouse, that's going to have an impact on your scalp health. So to be mindful of all of that. Yeah. I do want to just call out to that. You mentioned exfoliating and I used to be questioned why I would extrapolate my scalp and it's kind of the same as the face. So when you just wash your face, even if you're using a cleanser, it's not necessarily getting everything off of your skin that has been building up throughout the week, you really need to get that dead skin off and get any environmental toxins off of your skin to get to that base where it can really soak in those oils and all of those beneficial products that you're putting on it and exfoliating your scalp I'm sure is the same exact thing. When you sweat, when you're outside, there's all kinds of environmental toxins around us at all times, you do need to take those steps and sometimes it's a pain in the butt. Yeah. And you don't want, we don't want to, you don't necessarily need to do it too often. Um, you don't want to over, over exfoliate. So that's why we recommend that the mask is one to two week, um, type of product and why our shampoo is gentler so that you can use it on, on a daily basis. It's not going to strip your hair or strip your scalpels of too much on necessarily oil. Well, I think I have grilled you enough about science and haircare and scalp health. Um, so I just have a couple of quick hit questions for yet. Wrap this up. What does having a clean body mean to you? That's a good question. Um, I think it, it, it means really being mindful of the products you ingest, the products that you put under products of products you put on your skin. Um, and, uh, it really is mindfulness. It's understanding like what, what, what and why you're using the products you're using. Um, and, uh, and that there may be reasons why you're not using an all organic product at a certain time, but, um, but knowing what's in your products and making that make some kind of an active decision. That's a great answer. What are a couple other routine lifestyle and diet habits that you have that you could not live without? So, yeah, that's a good one. Um, I'd say, uh, I moisturize like something that's actually, I learned as I've gotten older is just it's moisturizing my face. Um, something that I've, uh, as, as a guy, at least at least myself I'll speak for myself. I just was never really never, I don't think I pampered myself in that way or any moisture wise. And as I got older, I realized, uh, it's, uh, it's really important to do so. I think as I learned more about my scalpel, I started to realize I needed to take better care of my skin. I mean, scalp is just an extension of your skin, right? So, um, moisturizing, exercise, being mindful of our, uh, um, mindful of being more and more mindful of what I'm eating, um, and seeing and learning how certain foods do do affect my D'Andre for, you know, my, my skin in general. Um, and then trying to be active in sports. So playing tennis, that's kind of something being down in Florida has now allowed me to be outside of it more and be active. But again, it's, uh, it's really this holistic approach to everything taking the right supplements, um, you know, to make sure that, um, I'm thinking what's in my body and what's on my body. Yeah. I think that's where marketing has made a big mistake. Like, what is the deal with men? Not thinking they need to put lotion on their faces, I'm going to just cut that clip and send it to my husband. He's like, why don't you? I mean, I think I was probably lazy to be honest. Um, and a lot of people are lazy. And then when you get older, you start to recognize that you just can't be as lazy anymore, but a little more mindful of that a few years ago, you know, it's always, always good to start now. And that's even honestly, even with, with our products, there are a lot of people that don't have to enter it daily. Um, but you know, being proactive about, about your routines I think is very, very important. So if you do it after, when it's too late, it's going to take a bit longer to fix whatever you want or improve wherever you were. So being proactive is I think a really important part of the overall personal character. Yeah. I'm definitely a routine person. I spiral if I don't have my routine, um, what is a wellness or wellbeing trend that you've recently become interested in? If anything? Um, I I've actually started to learn a lot more about alternative medicine. Um, and that's, that's actually been something that, um, I, I can't say I'm yet fully embracing, but I'm learning it. And I think it's, I think there's a lot, there's a lot there. So alternative treatment plans around, um, you know, that can help help both your, kind of your overall wellness beyond, um, uh, you know, beyond the, kind of the more traditional medicine that you can maybe taking, um, I've found and I've, I've just heard some really, really great results acupressure and things like that. Um, that I think is something I've learned about. And also, I would say another one is being mindful of what we're eating. Um, I've, I've had a lot, a lot more people in my life kind of turn to a more vegan, vegetarian lifestyle. It's never been kind of a big part of my, it's not been something I've thought about, but I'm starting now to incorporate more plant-based food, um, into my diets and being mindful of that and seeing some benefits there. So it's, it's, it's all, it's incremental. I'm not, uh, I can't make a big change all at once, but, uh, just a little, little bit starting to feel a bit better. Wellness is a lifelong journey. It's I don't think you can make any big changes overnight and you just, you have to make one small step and slowly build on that. But last question for you, what other brands do you love and support? That's great. Um, so I think there's been like an amazing kind of growth of really inspiring brands, um, um, that, that are kind of more in this kind of D to C space. So, um, I love what mod is doing in sexual wellness. I think it's a really, I think they've approached it in a really great way. Um, I love what boss has done in the SOC space, not so much wellness, but I just, you know, I, I liked, I liked the focus on again, quality products that, um, um, that also have, you know, like kind of social getting angles, we get 5% of our profits to mental health initiatives. Um, so I, I really liked to see a lot of these brands that are doing that. I mean, clearly there's been, there's a million, a million DTC brands that are kind of helped to, you know, start to de-stigmatize, you know, categories that, um, that were historically just not talked about, will wrong and loving, loving, seeing that trend. Um, and that's something that we're, Yeah. An interview I have coming up is with a, an adaptogenic lozenge company, and that's a space that hasn't been hasn't had anything new or cool in a very long time. So, um, there's a lot of cool brands coming out, like you said, but thank you so much before I let you go. How can people learn more about Jupiter interact with you? Any big things coming up for the brand that we should know about? Yeah. So, um, you can kind of go to our website at hello, jupiter.com and also find us on Amazon. Now we launched just the end of November on Amazon. Um, and in terms of interesting product, we have, uh, three or four new products that we've just, uh, just completed or at least very close to completion. Um, we'll probably, we'll be rolling some of those out in 2021. Like we don't want to rush to roll out new products before we get for our customers start to really understand and get a hold of what our core products are. But, uh, as I mentioned, based on a lot of the feedback we got on our quiz, it's led us to develop products that we know our consumers actually want. So that was something that was important is that we're not just, we're not just trying to create products based on what we think people want, but we just do listen to what they tell us. And, uh, so we're very excited about that. And, uh, you know, continuing to have discussions on some other channel partners, we've been seeing our products getting into, uh, into some dermatology practices, which is very exciting and I think a good growth opportunity for us as well as salons. So I think there's going to be a lot of really interesting products that we're going to be developing over the next few years around in areas that have historically been scalp aggravators. Um, and we can find we're going to be reformulating products that are all safe. Well, I think the sky's the limit for Jupiter and sorry, my dog is going crazy now, but I definitely going to be jumping off this call and Googling space flakes. Um, so thanks for giving me some homework. Thank you so much for chatting with us. Um, I'm such a fan and I will link everything out the website, the products, the Instagram, and the show notes. So check those out and yeah, you're wonderful. Thank you so much. Hey, Hey everyone. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Don't forget. Jupiter is offering 10% off to the clean body podcast listeners. Just go to hello, jupiter.com and type in clean body. 10 for 10% out at checkout. As a reminder, this podcast is for educational purposes. Only. It is not a substitute for professional care qualified health professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that medical or other health related services. If you're looking for help in your journey, seek out see you guys next time.