The Clean Body Podcast

The Truth About Synthetic Fragrances With Enviroscent's Tamara Kullback

• Lauren Kelly • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Today on The Clean Body Podcast, host Lauren Kelly talks to the SVP of Innovation & Partnerships of Enviroscent, Tamara Kullback about natural versus synthetic air fresheners, microplastics, forestry, aromatherapy, essential oils, plus more!

What you'll learn: 

  • The difference between synthetic fragrances and natural scents
  • Why you should avoid some synthetic fragrances
  • How toxins found in synthetic fragrances impact your health
  • How to safely use essential oils
  • Why essential oils can be dangerous for pets (cats and dogs)
  • The powers of aromatherapy
  • How our brain perceives and remembers smells via the limbic brain
  • Why managed forestry is good for our planet
  • The reality of microplastics
  • How to find cleaner, safer air freshener brands

About Tamara Kullback:

For the last eleven years, Tamara Kullback has been one of the senior leaders building the Enviroscent business from the ground up, growing from an idea strong challenger brand, taking on the big names in the air care industry. Leading a team of scientists and creative innovators, Tamara has combined her passion for sustainability with her experience in product development, flavors and fragrances to create a portfolio of unique alternatives to traditional air freshener products, and she loves every minute of it! 

 About Enviroscent:

Enviroscent is a Georgia-based company making innovative, sustainable air freshener products for the home and car that provide a clean fragrance experience that lasts. Made with a combination of natural, sustainable, non-toxic ingredients, plus 44 patents covering an array of all-natural materials, Enviroscent air fresheners are safer for the people, pets and planet we all love.

For more on Enviroscent... 

For more on Lauren Kelly and The Clean Body Project, visit www.thecleanbodyproject.com. 

Uh, we saw a fragrance that we know is quite popular in the air care aisle. Um, the whole thing is classified as a reproductive toxin. We found toxic air contaminants and carcinogens. And in many, if not most, uh, particularly in the car air fresheners, I was surprised how many nasty things were in there. And you're in this small enclosed space in a car breathing these things in. And I was like, wow, this is, yeah. You're thinking. Oh, I love that synthetic new car. So I have, but not realizing the havoc that it's just causing internal. Yeah. Like, yeah. And even neurotoxin. So I, I, um, you know, I'm, I'm so glad I learned all this because I had no. Welcome to the clean body podcast. I'm Lauren Kelly, a certified nutrition therapist, and soon to be specialized holistic cancer coach with a certification in cancer biology from UC Berkeley. I am so grateful that you're here. This podcast introduces you to the souls and brains behind some of the cleanest food beverage and lifestyle products on the market, because what you put on in and around your body matters from cookies, bread, and mushroom superfoods to adaptogenic lozenges, clean medicines, organic mattresses, and fluoride-free toothpaste. We'll explore how the brands came to be how scientific studies drove decisions about ingredients and materials. And most importantly, how the products support all the physical and mental microscopic miracles that occur in your body every minute of every day. Thank you for being here. Let's get this started. Hi. Hi. Hi. Welcome back to episode nine of the clean body podcast. I'm your host Lauren Kelly. Today. We are switching things up a little bit. We have spent the last eight episodes talking about organic food items, all natural beverages, regenerative farming, non-toxic hygiene products and how all of these things impact our health. But today our guest is Tamra callback. She's the SVP of Innovation for an all natural air freshener company named Enviroscent. And together we'll be breaking down the harmful impacts of synthetic fragrances. Now you might not even realize how many synthetic fragrances you have all around. You polluting the air that you breathe, or even being absorbed through your skin at all moments throughout the day, we're talking soaps, cleaning products, scented sponges, which I saw in the store the other day. And that's just crazy perfumes and colognes, garbage bags, candles, and even some not so safe, essential oils, but why, why is this important? Why should you care now about synthetic fragrances? Well, they contain palliates, which essentially are group of chemicals that can disrupt your hormone balance and have been scientifically to decrease fertility and men and women, and have had negative impacts on gut health, which as we've talked about is often the root cause of many health issues, including body-wide inflammation, which leads to other chronic conditions and even mental health disorders by preventing the synthesis of happy hormones, serotonin and dopamine from being produced in the gut and then transferred to your brain so that you can experience those happy feelings. Now, one meme that I just wanted to bring up, I saw a naturopathic doctor posts about synthetic fragrances runtime, and it always stuck with me and it read artificial fragrances are the new secondhand smoke. And I just could not agree more. They are such a health risk, and I think education around synthetic fragrances and how to avoid them is so crucially important. But back to Enviroscent, they've been on a mission to create better for you in scientifically backed nature inspired sense for the last 10 years, it's kind of becoming a popular thing. You're seeing lots of brands show up all of a sudden, but in virus it is the real Logix and they protect not only you by preventing harmful chemicals from getting into their products, including parabens synthetic carcinogens, reproductive toxins, mutagens, which we talk about during the interview and respiratory sensitizers, but also they protect the planet by investing in educating people about the importance of forestry and the real life threats of microplastics, Tamra. And I dig into all of that and more during the episode. But before we jump into that, I do just want to let you all know that I'm going to be taking a two week break from releasing any more new episodes. I am traveling back home after a very long pandemic to see my family and celebrate my youngest cousins high school graduation. So can I take a little self-care break, but we will be back with new episodes in two weeks before you even know it. And also with some more live Q and A's with other experts. So stay up to date on everything that's going on by following me on Instagram at holistic Lauren Kelly or the podcast at the clean body project. And of course you can follow embarrassment at embarrassment on Instagram. All right, let's get into this. Well, welcome to the clean body podcast. I'm so happy to have you here. No, thanks. I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to it. Huge fan of [inaudible]. I have a couple around my house going right now. Um, but before we hop into talking about the products, I would love to first hear about wellbeing and living a clean. In life. Yeah, well, it started young, um, I'm from Washington state and, um, I used to blame my mother for this, but in our house there was no sugar. Um, you know, no fruit loops, no soda, uh, all the things that child of the seventies would have loved. And, um, there was a lot of home remedies and she was always trying the newest things. So in my preteens and teens in the eighties, like I was drinking special Chinese tea and using Stevia instead of sugar. And I was pretty much alone in our community on that. Um, so I didn't think it was very cool at the time, but, um, later in life, I, uh, in my university years and my early career years, I actually lived for about five years in Asia and Singapore and Japan and Vietnam, and just really had a lot of exposure to, um, more traditional Chinese medicine and alternative things. Everything from reflexology to these, you know, herbal, uh, tree mushroom concoctions that they'll give you. Um, and I have to say it all pretty much worked. It was a great preventative medicine. And I know I, I grew up in a household where our objective was to stay away from the doctor and I've, I've definitely carried that through. Um, and then, uh, you know, in my thirties, I, I, uh, I worked with Dr. Atkins and got exposed to a lot of science around, um, healthy eating. And that really helped me, I think, over the last 20 years. Um, so it's, it's been a different journey, uh, or you know, different parts of my life. Um, and you know, but in virus sense, the first company I've been with where it's not about what you ingest, but about what you breathe in. And so that's been even another layer of thinking about health and wellness. Yeah. I'm definitely excited to get into that because I think a lot of people don't necessarily think about the air that they breathe in, but first I'm so jealous that you lived abroad. I've always said that I would love to live abroad for at least a year. And really there's nothing stopping me except myself. But, um, what are some of the, you said you still carry that ethos of preventative medicine and staying away from the doctor. What are some of the things you learned there in your time living abroad that you still carry through in your life today? Uh, well, some of the things that I do, um, they're, they're not all informed by that time. It's more 50 years of, of life. Um, I do have a pretty serious vitamin regimen. Um, you know, there's a debate on that. If you're eating healthy, you're supposed to get everything you need, but, um, I think you should augment. I know that even when I eat well, I'm not getting everything I need. And so why not have an insurance policy? So, um, I've been doing that for years and, um, and that includes things like adaptogens and other herbs and stuff that, that, um, I take, I, um, I try to stay active. I mean, I all through my, um, youth was very active and, and I've had lapses definitely as I've gotten older, but, you know, even now I try to get up every morning and get a workout in, I think, um, keeping my muscles and, um, so important. It's I see what a difference it makes and how clearly I think, and how good I feel. And, uh, certainly helps me to keep up with my 11 year old daughter. So I like that. Yeah. I totally agree. I take supplements as well, and yes, in an ideal world, we would get everything we need on a daily basis from the food that we eat, but also the nutrient profiles of the food we eat, aren't the same as they were hundreds of years ago. And so they don't have as much of the vitamins and minerals that we need to live an optimal life. And, you know, until you hit that threshold point, I don't think you can have enough vitamin C vitamin C so good. And for people that don't know what the threshold point is, you basically take as much vitamin C as you can, until you are in the bathroom, not feeling good. And then you just come back a little bit, but yeah. Yeah. I also take supplements. I'm curious. Which ones are you currently taking? Well, I mean, I of course take the usual suspects of multi and B. And I also take you back when all D three oil flaxseed oil, I take, um, OSH Gunda take Maka, take, um, RO Delia, rosacea, I 10, you know, for the thinning hair. So yeah, it's a mound of vitamins. Yeah. Just throw it all in a smoothie if you can, you know, and then you just got this super power food smoothie. Well, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Um, now I know that you joined in virus and back in 2009, it was a family company at that point. So maybe tell us a little bit about that story. Well, um, it was such a wonderful fit for me. I, um, I love the whole startup culture. Uh, I love the idea of kind of taking on the powers that be, and, and, uh, really, um, disrupting a category with something that's new and innovative and better for you. And, um, I saw an virus really as a, as a perfect fit. And, um, I was fortunate that, um, the, one of the companies that was looking to invest, um, kind of got to me through my network and, and I have to thank Atkins nutritionals for that. I think I mentioned, I, I worked with Dr. Atkins, um, back before low carb was a thing actually. So I was so fortunate to be there in the early years, working on all of our information, you know, even the books, the website, and then, um, product development, which was my, my real passion. Um, and I learned during that time, which was such an incredible career experience, but just how much I love science. I didn't know that when I was younger, I knew I loved me too. Yeah. I, I, um, my daughter asked me now what's your biggest regret? And I'm like, not paying more attention in chemistry. Like that was one class. Um, but I really immersed myself in the science there and loved it. And, um, and I loved that whole challenge, your brand experience of flipping a con conventional thinking on its head, because I was there at that tipping point when people realized that low fat wasn't necessarily the answer and was in fact contributing to negative health outcomes in our country and that low carp could actually be a healthier approach for, for people. Um, so it was a really exciting time and, uh, when, when the virus and opportunity came around and I think it has that kind of potential. And I want to do that again because it's really fun.[Inaudible] yeah. I mean, in virus and still has the vibe of this disruptor company who's coming in and doing, um, really unique things. I mean, your smells are unique, your offerings are unique. Your commitment to environmental impact is unique. Companies are now jumping on board with that, which is great, but, um, but it has been around, you know, for over a decade and that evolution has been inspired by different education and science that's come out. So how have you seen the company evolve since joining back in 2009? Well, gosh, it's amazing. Um, what a different world we live in now versus 2009. Um, I mean, the things we were talking about, you know, the, the, the garbage patches in the Pacific ocean, th we weren't talking about those yet. Um, just, just the whole sustainability and safety movement hadn't happened yet. Um, but when we started, we knew that we had a better mouse trap, right? W we knew we had something that was more sustainable, um, from pulp and paper, and it was safer at that point. It was safer in the way that you used it because she couldn't spill it and you didn't have to worry as much around children and pets. Um, but when we did our consumer testing, you know, way back when those things weren't as important to consumers at that time, they were important to us. So we've continued to build on them. Um, and I, I, so I, I would say we've evolved by continuing to push sustainability. We've gotten better and better on that over the years, but where we've had probably the most learning is really in this chemical world, because our products are, um, you know, they're around 55 to 60% pulp and paper with a little bit of abundant minerals and plant coatings in with that. And then the rest is just pure and infused fragrance. And, um, you know, as part of our mission to make lives safer for, um, people, pets and planet, we really had to get into the science of the chemicals. And, um, for the first many years we relied like everyone in this industry, we relied so heavily on our partnerships with fragrance houses. Um, they are the experts, the perfumers, they own a lot of the supply chain and they, uh, have their own regulatory standards, which are essentially set by the trade association of fragrance houses. And, um, we did rely on them in the early days, but then once we started to understand the kind of chemicals that were being used in these fragrances, um, we kept putting in stricter and stricter and stricter regulatory, regulatory guidelines at least annually, sometimes twice a year. I will tell you all of our fragrance houses, partners, they all complain to us that we're doing it way too hard. And, um, that's a good thing. So we, um, uh, several years ago adopted EPA safer choice. Um, they have, uh, guidelines for fragrance. It's called the interim fragrance criteria. So, um, we adopted those years ago and then we adopted European standards. And then we started realizing there were actually some loopholes, even in those things. And we just started closing them down bit by bit. Um, there are chemicals where if they haven't been studied and you self declare, they get exempted. So we don't exempt those. There are naturals that actually aren't safe that get exempted, you know, don't, don't exempt those. So, um, we, we really believe we have, um, one of the strictest safety standards now in the industry and in terms of sustainability, um, we've, we've really, uh, we still have work to do in virus sense on a journey like everyone on this planet. And I don't know that we'll ever be perfect, but, you know, we've, we've gotten plastic mostly out of our packaging and, uh, we're trying to reduce it as much as possible also within our products. So it's still work to do, but we're really excited about where we're at. Yeah, it's a journey, but I want to break down, uh, the science that you were kind of explaining just a and the chemicals in those fragrances. And, you know, there are, you made such a good point that there are some natural sense that are dangerous, and there are some synthetic fragrances that are safe. So it's hard to know which, and the chemistry behind that is very complicated, but as you were all going on this learning journey, what were some things you discovered about the impacts that chemicals have on our health and our bodies that made you think, Oh, I don't want to be, you know, inhaling this on a daily basis. Yeah, yeah. Um, well, gosh, when you're in the fragrance industry, first of all, and this happened early on, you'd see the fragrance oils come into your lab and they have all these scary icons on them and right away you start going, okay, what do those mean? Um, all of the chemists on my team know like that, but, um, it, unfortunately still, um, in fragrance, you're going to find a lot of carcinogens, a lot of reproductive toxins, a lot of toxic air contaminants, you'll find neurotoxins. Um, and that's after the industry's really cleaned itself up. Um, you won't find now maybe as many, um, PVTs or phalynx as you might've, uh, you know, in, in the past those, um, those are really no-nos now. Um, but in the last, um, over the last year, a new law came into place called the California, right to know act and for household cleaning products and for air freshener products, um, it coming from the state of California, if you want to sell there, you are required to disclose any chemicals you have in your product, um, which are on one of 23 lists. And those lists cover things like, um, carcinogens, reproductive, toxins, mutagens, toxic air contaminants, respiratory sensitizers PVTs even allergen. So, um, it's really runs the gamut. And, um, what that has done, um, also with increased transparency is, um, it's allowed us to understand what our competitors are using too. Um, we, we didn't always have visibility to that. Uh, we just knew we were trying to be clean and, uh, in the last year, uh, well, over the last year we created a massive chemical database taken from over 30 chemical global lists from places like the European chemical agency, the international agency on, um, for research on cancer, the EPA, lots of California agencies and, um, covers thousands and thousands of chemicals. And we've compared those to the 4,000 chemicals that are allowed in the fragrance industry. And we've compared it to our competitors as well as our own ingredient list. And what I can tell you is, um, it's really eyeopening when you see, um, uh, we saw a fragrance that we know is quite popular in the air care aisle. Um, the whole thing is classified as a reproductive toxin. Um, we found toxic air contaminants and carcinogens, and in many, if not most, uh, particularly in the, um, air car, air fresheners, I was surprised how many nasty things were in there. And you're in this small enclosed space in a car breathing these things in. And I was like, wow. Yeah, you were thinking like, Oh, I love that synthetic new car smell I have, but not realizing the havoc that it's just causing internally. Yeah. Like, yeah. And even neurotoxin. So I, I, um, you know, I'm, I'm so glad I learned all this because I had no idea. I mean, I'm, I've, I've never been a, like a plugin user, whatever, but I always had something around and, um, I'm so glad for environment and for our products that I can use those and just not have to worry, you know, just have confidence that what I'm breathing in and and my dog and all, you know, it's, it's safe. Um, I guess the other thing I might say about that is, um, you know, natural essential oils have become so popular and, um, and they are beautiful. They smell amazing. And we use them. Um, we actually use a high content of them and we we've been told, um, by people in the know that, you know, our minimum requirements are about five times higher than other air care companies. But what we do is we really focus on safe, essential oils. Um, a lot of essential oils come with naturally occurring carcinogens. And you might say, well, gosh, if I can't even eat a lemon now, because you know, it's carcinogenic, that's ridiculous. And that's not really what we're saying. We're saying it comes in a super concentrated form. So you have to be careful, this is actually a powerful chemical. So don't put that stuff on your skin, right. It's going to absorb into your body so you should know what's in it. So we really, um, curate, you know, to just to make sure we're focusing on safe, essential oils. Um, and part of the reason we do that is for pet safety, um, pets are very sensitive to essential oils. Many of them are toxic to pets, um, things that have all these wonderful, maybe antimicrobial or antifungal properties like tea tree oil can be very toxic to your accountant dog. Um, and what's interesting about that is my dog does this, but cats definitely do it. They groom by licking themselves. And so you have a lot of people out there using, um, essential oils in a water-based diffuser. So oil and water don't really love each other. That oil is not necessarily vaporizing as it's traveling into the air with this water. And what it's doing is gravity is taken over and it's falling on to things in your home onto your pets, and then your pets licking it. And, um, cats in particular just don't have certain enzymes and in their, um, livers to break down those toxins dogs are a little more Hardy, but, um, but cats really aren't. So you've got that issue. And then, um, and then birds, um, my mom has some birds, so she's talked my ear off on it, but you have to be really careful with any kind of vapors around birds. And our fragrances are all, um, just inherently, very low in VOC. Ultimal organic compounds. So that's, um, another thing that helps contribute to better air quality in the home. Well. Have quite a few questions about all of that. I have dogs and yes, I freak out probably on a daily basis of what are you eating now? What did you find outside? Oh my gosh. Freaking out. So I can't, I can't worry about the air. That would be too much for me. Um, and birds, Oh man, I have had two birds get into my home in the last month. I moved to a new house and for some reason, and we've had to fly into our windows. I'm like, why are birds trying to get into our house? Like why people say it's a good omen? It means good things, a good message is coming to you. But now I'm like definitely afraid of birds because I've had multiple in my home. I've been home alone and I've had to figure out how to get them out of my house without my dogs finding out that they're there. Um, anyways, that was a tangent that was not necessary. We have been successful. Well, I have been successful. Um, but I listening to that, it was so much information. And I think a lot of people, a lot of our listeners are probably a little overwhelmed with, okay, then what kind of sense can I have in my house? And what should I avoid? Are there larger, um, products or sense that you would tell your friends, don't pick these ones up at the store and how would you tell listeners or friends to, um, that they can gauge if something is safe? Yeah. I, um, I intentionally don't want to, um, throw other brands or products like under the bus, but what I think is really great is to inform people how they can educate themselves and really take matters into their own hands. So they can make an informed decision when they purchase. And that's, what's so great about this California, right? To know, act because, um, companies are required to make these disclosures. And in the year 2020, they were required to make them on their website. And so even for us, when we wanted to find out what was in these competitive products, we just went to their website and the law says within four clicks, you have to be able to get to, um, the, the chemical disclosure, as well as the SDS sheet, which a safety data sheet. And that gives you even more details. And you may, you don't have to know what these chemical names are like, don't get hung up on that. Um, even, you know, even cinnamon, a natural thing has a chemical name. That doesn't sound that approachable. So, um, a lot of things that are natural have chemical names, that don't sound good. So I would, I wouldn't get so hung up on that and I would really focus on, um, what list they're referencing. So if they have a, um, chemical that they're required to disclose and, um, then they have to tell you why, and there should be a link to the list and the list will tell you what it is. Is this a carcinogen? Is it a toxic air contaminant? What is it? Um, so that you don't have to figure that out on your own. Um, and then it could be an allergen, um, you know, as well, it'll, it'll tell you that, um, the only allergens on the list are from the European cosmetic allergen list. Um, so they're not, um, allergens for breathing, but for, um, touch, but that's, I think the easiest way to do it now in 2021, any products that are made from January forward have to have it on the label and they have to have those. Um, and so there are probably still older products out in the market that don't have it yet. Um, and we have seen some companies in the industry not conforming to this law. And, um, I would say, I would ask consumers to hold them accountable. This So if there's a product you really love, and they're not sharing with you, what's in their product, you should ask him, you should make them do that. Um, they are required to, if they want to sell in the state of California, um, on our website, if you go to our FAQ or you go to, um, the part that says what we're made of one click is going to take you into the full list of disclosure for all of our fragrances. That's great. And we're also, um, in may of this year kind of upping the game because we're executing smart label, um, across all of our environment products. And that will give an, um, uh, much more disclosure. So you'll see all of our ingredients, um, when you click into smart label. And so we're really excited about that. Driving just more and increased transparency in our industry. Yeah. It's really great that we are getting more transparency across the board about, you know, what's in our food, what's in our water, what's in our fragrances and the chemicals that we're putting around our body, but it still blows my mind. Like most people are not going to have time to go through four clicks, then click through the database to read and understand like, most people are too busy, especially now we're all locked down. Their kids are running around like crazy, you know, it can be really hard and daunting. I know my, my fricking husband, like this is my life passion. This is what I do. And on a regular basis, he's like, I'm going to the dollar store to get some air fresheners and some cleaner. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Why no. So I tell him he can put whatever he wants in his car, but none of that can come in my house. Yeah. And sometimes it's just knowing where to shop, you know, like we, what our products are on Grove collaborative and they are, um, quite rigid in what they select to sell in terms of safety and sustainability, because they're very anti plastic. So you just know that if they've said it's okay, um, then they've taken some of that work, um, away from you so that there are some strategies there. It's hard. I mean, we are amazed all the time, uh, of, you know, what we see on the internet. People recommending you do certain things with essential oils. It's, I mean, to, you know, put them on skin. We've seen things, you know, the children ingesting like, no, we don't do that, but it's it's as a consumer, it is confusing. Um, you kind of have to do your homework. So let's clarify that a little bit because essential oils are such a big thing in today's world. I have friends who sell them, you know, and, um, talk about them all the time and really believe in them. Are there essential oils to put on your skin to ingest and unsafe, or would you just kind of blanket statement you should those practices? Well, if you don't, if you don't have the time to dig in, I'm a believer in the blanket statement because that's the safest route. And, and I think we take that approach on a lot of things. Like if you, um, don't contribute to the problem, if you don't understand it, but, um, but yeah, no, they're, they're a safe, I mean, um, things like, um, citrus and spices, um, and, and trees are, they're going to have, um, you know, skin irritants and, uh, things like that. So I wouldn't recommend those, uh, on skin. And, um, I I'll tell you why. I think I already mentioned, I'm not a chemist. I have, uh, a team of canvas, um, who, uh, know this science even much better than I do. Um, and I rely on them and our database to really know like that one safer. That's not, we're asking the fragrance houses all the time. I mean, citruses are wonderful. They also come with naturally occurring carcinogen. So we just have to be careful about which ones we use. Sometimes you have a choice, like do, do I use that cinnamon or this one, this one's better because it has a cleaner, and those are the, um, the nitty gritty details. We dig into an environment. Um, so I say beat rather be safe. Sorry. And, um, do a little homework before you start, um, putting things on your skin or ingesting them. Thank you for sharing that. I want to go back a little bit. You've mentioned a couple of times using pulp and paper, and I think a lot of listeners probably don't quite understand what that means. So if you could just explain that a bit. Yeah. Well, all of our products start with, um, sustainable, renewable pulp and paper, and, um, that's really an important part, um, of our ingredients because, um, before I get into the sustainability piece, it's this perfect canvas for fragrance. Um, hope and paper is a nerd. It doesn't, um, have what the, what we use doesn't have its own inherent, um, odor that it's bringing to the party and, um, fragrance diffuses off of it really nicely. Now we've done a bunch of stuff to it to make it even better, um, in, in terms of how open it is and the kind of plant-based codings we use in that, that kind of thing. But, um, it's you get the most perfect expression of fragrance when you use paper, which is why when you go do perfume, you spray it on paper because all you're going to smell is their perfume. Well, if you're using a candle or your, you, um, you've got the wax has its own inherent smell, and you've also got functional chemicals. You need to put in to protect the fragrance from getting too hot, cause it'll get destroyed. So there are all these things that come in with their own odor when you make a Reed diffuser, but 85% of that liquid is some kind of, um, chemical solvent. And its job is just to pull this heavy fragrance up a WoodWick and push it into the air. It comes with its own inherent odor gels. Uh, those Colins that people use like Mol. And so if you're a perfuming for those products, you have to take those inherent odors into account and try and work around them. Perfumers love working for us because they can just make a beautiful fragrance. We infuse it into our paper and it smells like that, which is why our products smell so natural because we take a lot of the natural materials. We don't, um, we don't muck them up with a bunch of functional chemicals. We just don't need them. And then we infuse them into paper, which is just this great carrier and it diffuses it so nicely. Um, but there are all these other benefits from a sustainability perspective because we've got full chain of custody. We know that that comes from a, um, managed forest, uh, managed forests are great for the planet, great for the environment. Um, and when you're done using our product, you can literally pitch it in the recycling bin and it can get reused and doesn't have to go to landfill. I know if you pitched it out your window in your garden, it would biodegrade. So it just doesn't have the same kind of, you know, impact that these other products have where the, the vessel or the carrier is a big chunk of plastic. No. And how do you come up with your sense because some of your sensor, so, um, unique that I've never seen them for anyone else. I know that staying natural is very important, but what are, what are some, what's the thought process that goes into the sense that you're going to have in your environment set line? Well, um, we are, I'm probably have said this, but we're very rooted in nature. We take our cues from nature and so it starts there for us, whatever we make, it has to smell really natural, like something you would, um, come across, outside, you want to try to bring the outside in. Um, and so it starts there. And then when we think about our ingredients and, and this comes into the name it's, um, you got to have something in your fragrance that people are familiar with, that they know they're gonna like, um, even just by the name of it. And, um, we've all been trained now over years and years of having certain kinds of products, um, in our homes or in our lives, you know, that there are things that people like. Um, and so we start with something familiar and then we want to add in an unexpected ingredient that is more of a discovery. Um, we try to be very health and wellness inspired when we think about that and, um, really honor the ingredients that are in the fragrances themselves. So, uh, you know, lemon leaf and time is an example of that. It's actually, um, a very herbaceous, um, you know, an herbal type fragrance, but it has the lemon in it, which is familiar. And, um, the other thing, you know, fragrances are, uh, fragrances emotional. I, um, one thing I love to geek out on when we talk about the science of, of Sant and that's that, um, the, our sense of smell is our only sense that bypasses the rational part of our brain, the frontal lobe, like touch and sound. It all comes here and then kind of gets directed to where it needs to go in the brain, but scent doesn't do that. It goes right to the limbic system, to our lizard brain, which sits next to memory and emotion. And, um, that's why scent, um, can transport you to a feeling faster than anything else, even music. I think that's so interesting. And I was going to ask if inviro sent products, have aroma therapy, um, you know, capabilities, and it sounds like anything that you smell essentially has a Roma therapy. I think so. Um, there is some intent and though in what we, um, make, and, um, so for example, we have a lavender tea and honey, it's a very calming fragrance, so it's a really good one to have in the bedroom. And, um, you know, the bathroom, just, you know, your calm spa, um, go to sleep spaces, uh, the lemon leaf and time, which I mentioned is a very energizing fragrance. Um, so it's kind of great. Like if you're cleaning your house, put that one out and it's really going to be like, yeah, this I'm ready to go. What's next. Um, and then our Springwater and Lotus is a, I would call it like cozy up with a book kind of in a clean, fresh way. And it's, it's calming, but it's not going to, it's not like lavender where it's going to put you asleep. It's just going to make you feel, uh, content. I mean, we all are spending so much time in our homes, so just having it smell clean and natural, um, makes you feel better. 100%. I love smelling like one of the most fun things about [inaudible] is I try to get a new set every time, and I get excited to see what that sentence is going unique. And I also buy local candles, um, from a local candle maker who makes really, you know, clean candles. Um, but I just, I always light it right next to my desk. And it just gives my day, a little something. It helps with stress and anxiety. And you just enjoy where you are a little bit more when there is an enjoyable smell. And I love the parallel you drew from smells to memories. I think a lot of people hear that, but, um, I remember this one time, my grandma used to have lavender in her house, but it was such a distinct smell. It was like a, probably a mixture of older furniture and lavender and totally moved. I went into this vintage furniture store and it smelled exactly like my grandma's house. And I was like, Oh my gosh, do you know? It does give you this like chills and this memory right off the bat. It's really incredible. Yeah. It stops you in your tracks. It's amazing. Now there is, you mentioned that, you know, chemicals, um, even something like cinnamon has a chemical name and of just seeing a name that they don't understand. Um, one that environment products does have is multidrug strain. Um, and so I was curious if you could just share why you use it in your products and, um, why you deem it safe. No, I'm glad you asked it. Maltodextrin is corn starch. So it's an ingredient you would see over and over again in the food industry. Um, so it's plant-based and, um, renewable and all that. And, um, we use it as part of a coding on our products. We don't use a very high quantity. We don't need a lot of it. Um, but I was saying earlier than a lot of companies will use functional chemicals. Um, one of the trickiest things about making fragrance is that it's this, um, it's this soup of molecules that all have different weights, and you're trying to get them all to play together and stay together. And that's really hard to do so. Um, the lighter molecular weights are more volatile and those are things like, um, lemon or some pine trees, um, but a lot of citrus or like that. And it means they want to leave the soup as fast as they can. They want to evaporate and get into the air. And then you have things like your green notes and your florals. They sort of sit in the middle and they follow right behind in terms of leaving. And then you've got these heavy notes, like, uh, vanilla or wood, um, some spices or mid or in the bottom. And they take their time. They want to stay around forever. Has this challenge, like how do we get them all to leave at the same time so that when they leave, the fragrance smells the same on day 30, as it did on day one. And anyone who has used fragrance knows that if you have like some kind of lemon vanilla fragrance, it's going to smell like lemon for, you know, a few days. And at the end, it's only gonna smell like vanilla. So, um, the way that the fragrance industry has addressed this problem is by creating functional chemicals that are fixatives that hold those volatiles down, or they're lifting agents that pull the heavy ones out. Um, we took a different approach. We really decided to partner with nature, um, to do it. And so we take the cornstarch, um, as a coating and it slows down the volatiles. They can't just escape. They have to keep bouncing around until they can find a way out basically. So while they're doing that, the other ones are kind of catching up so that they can leave. It's kind of like a pace car. They can leave more evenly. And then, um, we use very safe nano liquid silica, which is an abundant mineral mineral found in water. And it's actually a desiccant. So that's also in there. And what it does as fragrance starts to leave, um, the silica absorbs the ambient moisture from the air and because water and oil don't like each other, that water will slowly push those heavy notes out. So you thought, um, something holding it on the tub and something, pushing it from the bottom. And that, that allows it to diffuse evenly over time. So you get the same character, but you also get to use up all the fragrance and you do it all without adding these other chemicals. And that means that we get to use just aromatic, um, ingredients. We don't have these other things in it. I mean, when you buy a fragrance that has liquid in it, um, a lot of it isn't fragrance. It's, it's there to do a functional job for us. It's all fragrance, a hundred percent. Um, so that's, you, you're getting what you pay for. You're getting more value. You're getting an awesome smell and you don't have to give anything up, you know, um, having come out of the health food industry, I can say this that, um, no matter how healthy something is for you, if it doesn't taste good, you're not gonna use it again. And, um, there's this perception in health food. There's certainly in, I think in household cleaning that if it's more natural or somehow better for you, it's not going to work as well. But yeah, so to have him use our product, because it's different for us, we've taken these things out that aren't adding any value and in fact are, um, toxic, and we're just replacing them with these beautiful fragrant ingredients. And so you, you really get an awesome experience. So I would love to hear what your husband thinks. Done. I mean, he loves the smell that I make him. I'm like, get that dollar store sent out of my room. This is not going to happen. Um, I think at this point, people are probably curious and there's a couple more topics I want to hit on before we wrap up. But I think at this point, people are probably curious how much in virus and products are, are there memberships, subscriptions? What have we got going on? Um, so you can find us, um, in different places. So in virus.com, amazon.com, I mentioned Grove collaborative. Um, we're also sold nationally at retail through Albertson stores. So Albertsons Safeway on Juul. And, um, we're working on a lot more distribution beyond that, but, um, you don't have to have a subscription, but on our website, you can, and on Grove collaborative, you certain and probably Amazon as well. You certainly can, if you want to set that up. Um, and we have, um, four main products, um, that address different needs and different spaces. So we have our plug hub, which is a plugin, but it's different from every plugin you've ever seen. First of all, it's a solid, there's no leaking. Um, and it's, again, this paper-based, and it's very discreet. It's actually two and a half, three times smaller than your average kind of liquid plugin, which is big and bulky sticking out of the wall. This one looks a little bit more like, you know, your nest the moment, or, um, but it's small. And, um, that's really good for larger spaces though. A lot of us homes now have these big open floor plans. So like in my downstairs, I use two of those, um, to cover that. And then, uh, and the plug hub, um, you can find it online. So, um, you're looking at, um, uh, I think it's seven or $8 for refill and that'll last 45 days. Um, and then since sticks are truly unique to us, we invented this format back in and before I joined the company, the founder of our company invented this product and we have so many patents on it. Um, but this is basically a paper stick that's infused with fragrance. Um, we have our own little magic to make it work, but, um, what's cool about those is that you can use as few or as many as you want to set the space you want to put them in. So if you're in a small office, you can use one or two gear and a large master bedroom, two or three, you know, if you really have a huge appetite for scent, you can put more sticks in or, you know, or if not, then you just use one. And, um, you don't have to worry about anything spilling. I mean, anyone who's used a Reed diffuser knows the minute you get knocked over by your cat or your child, your furniture is ruined, um, that or your, your floor or whatever. That's not the case, um, with our product, you just don't have to worry about that. Um, and those, those can go, um, in lots of different spaces in, in the home, you can almost lay or fragrance. Um, we also have event clip, which is refillable, um, for the car that lasts 30 days. And we also have, you know. With that was for the car. I ended up hanging it on our banister, it's black and it like, kind of just blends right in. But I was like, I'm not really sure why I'm supposed to hang this. If it clips on the bank in your car, um, or you can put it on the vent in your home. Actually, I do, I do this in my husband's office just to sneak stuff in there. I'll um, because for some reason that air comes out of a vent in the ceiling, so I clip it up there and that works. Um, yeah. Yeah. And then, um, we also have a spray for, you know, those immediate needs, so lots of different choices. And one of the tips I like to give people, um, I guess it goes back to the geeky brain science, but, um, one of the key functions of our, of the sense of smell is, um, to enable us to detect danger. So, um, when you first smell something, the brain is determining if that smell is, um, a danger, you know, again, limbic system, so fight or flight kind of mechanisms. So if you smell fire or you run or, or, you know, rotten meat don't eat that. Um, but once the brain determines, no, this is okay, it's not going to hurt you. It kind of stopped smelling it because it needs to make room for the next thing. Um, because it's got an important job to do. Um, and so we all know this as being nose blind, that once we're around a smell for a while, we stopped smelling it. Um, it's a real thing. And so what we recommend is that you use different fragrance and fragrances in different spaces in your home. Um, so that as you move through your home, you can actually enjoy it, um, you know, lavender in the bedroom, and then you walk out and you smell lemon in the kitchen and, you know, maybe red poppies and Rosewood. I, I got to give a plug for that fragrance because I love it. Um, you know, in, in your living room and, and now you've spent money on this fragrance product. You get to enjoy it because you knows is picking it up. That is such a good tip. I've never thought about that, but I'm going to go into the embarrassment site after this and just order away my husband's going to be like, go dear God with her, since this is a woman. Um, thank you for that. That was a great tip, but there is, I want to transition a little bit, um, we've talked so much about science and chemistry, and there was another topic that you brought up when we talked prior to this interview, which I found so fascinating, and that was forestry. And that's something that environment is also really passionate about. And there's, you've discovered that there's some mishap understanding or some miseducation around forestry in the general population. So I would love for you to just share some of your knowledge on the topic. I just want to say I was misinformed. Um, so I'm not going to blame anyone else. Um, but I've been on a journey of learning here and it's, um, I told you I'm from Washington state and I grew up, um, around mountains and trees and camping. And, um, I remember being a kid and just being so upset, like literally almost crying, seeing Clara cut mountains, and you know, that the trees were gone thinking that was just criminal. And, um, it held that perception for years and years about deforestation and, and, um, all the problems that causes and what I've come to learn, um, really over the last 11, 12 years is that that's all part of managed forestry. And it's really important. Um, you see now people talking about tree free products, and I think the intent is great. Like we all want to do something better for the planet. Um, but managed forestry actually is doing something for the planet. Um, you know, we all know trees eat CO2 and the more CO2 we can eat, the better it's going to be for, um, the issues we have around, um, climate change. And, um, the interesting thing about trees is that they eat way more CO2 when they're young. And, uh, we have this brilliant, um, director who works on my team, Eric Maynard, and he's been pulled in paper's whole life. And he explained it to me very easily. He's just said, think about how much a teenager eats, right? They eat you out of house and home. Well, that's what those trees are doing. They are eating way more CO2 than they will ever do again in their life. And, um, so there comes a point in a tree's life where it actually slows down in terms of its CO2 consumption, and then it's starts to decay and die, and it releases the CO2 back into the environment as it's decane. So all that stuff that was stored is now coming back, if you plant trees and let them grow through these teen years into mature adults, and when you cut them down, you're actually storing that CO2 when you're converted to paper or becomes part of your house or whatever, you're actually storing it. It's not going to get re-released. And now you can plant young trees that are going to come in behind you and suck out more CO2. So, um, and that's, what's happened in fact, today in the United States are 20% more trees in our country than there were in the seventies when I was growing up. And when I go and visit home, now I see those clear cut. Um, landscapes are gone there, there are trees there. And that, that's a good thing. And I'm not saying take down the rainforest. Absolutely not. We're saying, you know, there are trees that deserve and need to be protected. Absolutely. But, um, but if you, but manage forestry is a good thing, not just for the trees and for the planet, but for the, um, the ecosystems that are there and, and the wildlife and indigenous populations, um, we, we are FSC certified and that as an organization, they make sure that they're taking care of that, taking care of the water quality, um, and, and lots of issues associated with those environments where trees grow. And so we, we feel very good about that. Yeah, that's something I definitely never knew. And I was also one of those people that would see them burning down trees. And I was like, why are you doing that? Thought about chaining myself to a tree, you know, the typical you see in the movie, but it's good to know that it does serve a purpose and it is important. And it's a part of taking care of our planet. So I appreciate you sharing that and everything that only take care of our planet, but take care of us. You know, I always say it takes a village, not just to raise kids to, but to raise ourselves. And so it's important to partner and support brands who are helping you live an optimal life. And they're not trying to trick you into buying something, that's they know isn't healthy for you. Um, so before I go to the quick hit questions, are there any things coming up for the brand that you would love to share with listeners? Um, uh, we are playing with so many things in our lab, but the fun job, because we're trying to take natural materials and do that haven't been done before, and also provide alternatives to the things people are already using, but maybe we can give them a safer way. And I can't say what all those things are, but they are coming. Um, we do have something launching in April or may, which is a new packaging structure that we're really proud of. Um, it's plant-based and, um, recyclable. And so the thing about fragrances is hard to package because all of those, um, volatile chemicals in there want to get into the air. And so you have to keep it in a really fresh air, tight environment, um, so that when the consumer opens it, they get the full enjoyment of the product. Um, so that means you can only use certain kinds of things. And we, um, after a lot of work on literally across the globe, working with lots of different countries, came up with this packaging structure. So that'll be coming out. Um, like I said in may and, um, we're growing our distribution, you know, we're still, I would say we're still a small company we're growing fast. Um, we need to reach more people and, um, retailers are excited about what we're offering in terms of an alternative to the conventional type products. And so, um, just keep looking on the retail shelves, what, you know, when we all get back into stores, I guess, or look for us online and, um, if we're not there, you know, ask for us, please. Well, I'll just follow you on Instagram. See what new stuff you have coming out. It sounds like such a fun job as you were talking about it. I was like, man, I need a job at am virus. Pretty cool. I do, I do have a full job. Um, but yeah, science is I'm in the same boat. I wish that I had taken to science more. I always say that to my mom. Why didn't you make me do science more? I was always naturally good at it, but I rejected it for so long. Here we go. Um, it all comes full. Circle. It does, but. I'd love to jump into quick hit questions with you. So the first one is what does having a clean body mean to you? Uh, I go back to what we said. It's about, um, avoiding, um, the pollutants and toxins and things that can prematurely weather your body or, um, you know, make you sick. Uh, I want to be here as long as I can and in a, in a very vital way. So I, and I'm not perfect, but I certainly try to minimize those things. What. Are a couple other routine lifestyle and diet habits you have that you couldn't. Live without? Yeah. I already mentioned my vitamins, like even on a day if I don't work out and even on a day that I eat, you know, pizza and, you know, have some alcohol, I take my, um, but I, um, I, uh, also, uh, do try to stay active. I mentioned, um, what that has looked like over the years has been very different because I used to just, when I was young chase a ball, anything that involved a ball and I was in, um, and then in my next phase of life, I was into serious biking and scuba diving and stuff. And now a little bit older, I'm doing more stuff with weights, um, less running, more walking, you know that, but, um, but I, I do try to get that in. And my, my daughter does like, um, American Ninja warrior stuff. So we built a course in the backyard and, um, I try to do some of that, but it's pretty embarrassing. Hey, don't be embarrassed. I'm not doing things like that. I have a mini trampoline though that I, every morning I get on and I put music on and I just dance around on it and my husband comes out and he's like, you're so weird. And I'm like, we're going to have these for our kids. We're all going to have a trampoline dance party. One day when we have kids, we have three dogs. That's as much as I can handle right now. Yeah. Uh, what are some other brands that you are loving right now? So I don't know what this says about me, but I'm going to focus on beverage brands. Um, I'm always trying to figure out how I can drink more water and not get bored. Um, so one brand I really like is a true citrus. They make these little, um, packets that are made from actual fruit, not like the other stuff, that's, you know, sucralose and artificial flavoring or whatever, but it's, they, they derive the fruit down and, and, um, you can just add it into your water and without giving you any sugar, it, it gives a little hint of raspberry or lemon or whatever. So I just, when I use that I drank more water. Um, I was also really an early adopter of noon. And you, you, and, um, when I was doing all the biking, it's great to you drop a tab in your water and you can get your electrolytes without all this sugar. Um, they, they have immunity products. Now they have like all sorts of energy products, but, um, so I'm a big fan of that. And then, um, our, um, head of marketing introduced me to this brand called Ali pop. Um, do you know that I had. One last night? So. Um, I've been buying that my husband is, speaking of husbands is not happy because it's not really, uh, very inexpensive, but, um, to be able to have, I don't know, something that tastes like a root beer or a Cola. Um, I like the ginger lemon one, but, um, and it's super low in sugar, like two to five grams, I think. And, um, it's got, uh, fiber and probiotics and, um, so I've got my daughter drinking that instead of asking for. So that's been, um, a really nice change in our house. So a big, big fan of that too. Yeah. I've been buying it just to test it out because they do this podcast. And my favorite thing is going to sprouts and finding all these new products to try. And my grocery bills are ridiculous, but that's a good idea. That's such a good alternative for children who want to have soda Olly pop would be an awesome alternative. I'll have to check out those other brands. You mentioned. I'm always so speculative of those packages of powder, you know, like I won't name any brands either, but, uh, I'm always like, I don't know that that does what you're trying to market it to do. So I will have to try those ones out. Well, transparency. I know the people who made that product, so I know it's good. Um, I did definitely highly recommend it. Yeah. That's great. Awesome. I will be checking them out today, probably. So lastly, is there anything else that you want people to know about Enviroscent and how can they find your products interact with you and the brand? This is your time to just shout anything out that you'd like. Well, I mean, when you think of InspiraCell, I mean, I just want you to know we are, uh, everyone and on our little team, tiny, but mighty, um, is focused on making life safer. Um, for the people pets and planet, we, we all love. And, um, it's a, it's a journey we're on and we just hope that more people will come in. We want to be an agent for change, like behavioral change. That's going to be lasting and meaningful. Um, if you know, I, if in 10 years from now, we can walk down the aisle and see that it's no longer as sea of plastic and bright colors and toxic chemicals, but now you have some really safe, more natural, um, and environmentally friendly options on the shelf and we've really done our job. Um, so I, you know, I hope that you will try us and see if that something that, um, works for you and, uh, to do that in virus.com. Um, we're on Amazon, we're on Grove collaborative. We're in Albertson stores around the country. So Safeway tool and others, and more to come. Awesome. Well, I will link out to the website, all the social pages in the show notes, and you know, it's such a good point. I always tell my friends and clients think longterm, it's a little more expensive at the store when you go there. But the dollar amounts on health bills that you might be saving yourself in the future is really worth it. And you can feel really good knowing you're supporting people who are trying to make a difference in the world. So vote with your wallet for yourself, for the world. Thank you so much Tamra. It was such a joy talking to you. I so appreciate it. Um, you just have so much knowledge and I'm a huge fan of a virus, and I'll be getting a different set in every room. Now. Thank you so much, Lauren. This was really fun. This is, um, I have a fun job, but this was even more fun. So the opportunity, Everyone, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Tamra from Enviroscent. You can check them out@inviro.com or follow them on Instagram at [inaudible]. That is E N V I R O S C E N T. As a reminder, this podcast is for you in two weeks.