The Clean Body Podcast

The History & Health Benefits of Raw Cheese Vs. Pasteurized Cheese

• Lauren Kelly • Season 1 • Episode 19

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Today on The Clean Body Podcast, host Lauren Kelly talks to the Founder and CEO of Raw Farm, a dairy producer that crafts and sells organic cheese, kefir, butter, and milk from grass-fed cows that is wholly unprocessed and is considered "living" with all of it's beneficial bacteria intact.

During the episode,  you'll learn about:  

  • The scientific data that contributes to the historical timeline behind animal milk consumption
  • The events that led to the demonization of raw cow's milk
  • Pasteurization and what it entails
  • The health and nutrient differences between raw and pasteurized milk
  • The role of milk in building and maintaining gut health
  • The role of milk in modulating the immune system
  • Lactose-intolerance and what's really causing it
  • The difference between goat milk and cow's milk
  • The health benefits of kefir and grass-fed butter
  • The enzyme and nutrient profile of raw cheese
  • Benefits of raw kefir for pets
  • Finding raw milk brands who only follow the highest safety standards 

About Mark McAfee, Founder & CEO of Raw Farm USA:

Founder and chairman of the Raw Milk Institute ( nonprofit 501c3 ), Mark is an internationally recognized speaker and expert with an emphasis on Raw Milk production standards, gut biome, milk genomics, nutritional benefits, food safety and the medical benefits of raw unprocessed milk and products. 

Mark is deeply involved with raw milk food safety research and is associated with the International Milk Genomics Consortium at UC Davis.

For more on Mark & Raw Farm USA: 


For more on Lauren Kelly & The Clean Body Podcast: 



You're going to find that I absolutely completely acknowledge that there's been some dark periods for raw milk in history, the world history, but the history goes back 10 to 12,000 years in the bright story actually started 50,000 years ago, or maybe longer when you have a cow, a horse shape, a mammal and you get enough of them. You don't have to hunt fish or farm. You have all the food you need right there. You have fluid milk. You have Kathir, you've got butter, you've got cheese. You've got all this stuff right there. You can sustain yourself almost wholly by that. Cause it's a whole food. If you think about babies, they don't have anything except for mom. That's it. Welcome to the clean body podcast. I'm Lauren Kelly, a certified nutrition therapist, and soon to be specialized holistic cancer coach with a certification in cancer biology from UC Berkeley. I am so grateful that you're here. This podcast introduces you to the souls and brains behind some of the cleanest food beverage and lifestyle products on the market. Because what you put on in and around your body matters from cookies, bread, and mushroom superfoods to adaptogenic lozenges, clean medicines, organic mattresses, and fluoride-free toothpaste. We'll explore how the brands came to be. How scientific studies drove decisions about ingredients and materials. And most importantly, how the products support all the physical and mental microscopic miracles that occur in your body every minute of every day. Thank you for being here. Let's get this started. Hey guys, welcome to the clean body podcast. I'm your host Lauren Kelly. Thanks for being here today. We are diving deep into dairy. Now dairy gets a bad rap and sometimes it can be a little controversial and I get it about 68% of the world is said to have issues absorbing or utilizing lactose, which is the key sugar that's found in milk. And it gives it that sweet flavor. But the question we have to ask is, is it the dairy that's the problem? Or is it the way we process the dairy now in today's modern world? Well, we're going to figure that out in this episode, I'm speaking to mark McAfee, he's the founder and CEO of raw farm USA, a company that provides dairy products that are unprocessed and according to their website, complete with available vitamins minerals, enzymes, beneficial bacteria, naturally occurring CLA and omega three fatty acids. Now mark has quite the impressive resume. He has helped pioneer raw milk food safety standards, and fought tons of legal battles to keep the ball moving forward for raw milk dairies across the world and make it accessible for consumers who want clean, healthy, raw milk products that are free of antibiotics, synthetic hormones, toxic pesticides, or genetically modified anything which stay away from in every capacity. But during the conversation we discussed the history of dairy and its impacts on societal health in the past. It's pretty interesting. The controversies that surround consuming cow's milk in any variety and the health benefits of consuming raw cheese, Keifer butter, and milk, and how they can impact the human body. Even for those who believe they are lactose intolerant. Now, before we hop into the conversation, I did want to tell you about this synchronicity show a looking to take their lives to the next level and learn powerful wellness business and life strategies that will get you there. In each episode, my friend, and to be host Kevin Wafi deconstructs the lives of world-class performers. I'm talking those at the Zenith of their careers and he teases out the habits, routines and rituals that are necessary to live a happy, healthy, and fulfilling life. This show is unlocking your true potential crafted into a recipe for your ears. The synchronicity show is available on all major podcast platforms and complete show notes can be found at Kevin wafi.com/podcast. So be sure to check that out. It's something I listened to on the regular. If you like this episode, please rate, review, subscribe, share it with a friend. Let's get right into it. Mark. Welcome to the clean body podcast. How are you this morning? I am very good coming from Fresno, California, and you're in Phoenix. So we're not too far away from each other. Yeah. I grew up in the bay area. So I was even closer to you then has a special place in my heart. Definitely. A little cooler up there with the moon layer, the way you were in Phoenix. That's for sure. Yeah. Except today it is beautiful. It is storming. I actually had to put a light in front of me because they didn't have the sun streaming into my window. So it's a nice morning. It's not so hot today. So I appreciate it. But I am really excited to talk to you about dairy and specifically raw dairy. Um, I have been consuming your raw cheese for at least two years. I not even sure how long and I'm so grateful that it is in sprouts because that's how I discovered you. And otherwise, you know, you have to find a local farmer and it's always great to support local, but it's also easy when you're running through the grocery store to grab something that you believe fuels your body and your health. And so I'm really grateful for, um, raw farm and everything that you're doing. But before we get there, I would love to hear your story and your journey to raw farm creating raw farm, and even just going on your own journey to discovering the health benefits of raw dairy. Well, that, that's a, uh, a complex question, but I'll, I'll try to really make it as short as I can. Uh, I grew up on a farm. I grew up on a dairy and tell us 13 years old. I was the chief slave and up cows myself, you know, and, um, uh, my first job out of high school, I was a welder in a mine. Um, and I saw a guy got hurt and helicopter came in and I just got all excited about listening to the helicopter blades and the paramedics and everything taken care of this guy. And they say this life and I thought, you know what? I want to be a paramedic. So I went off to paramedic school and I thrived. I went through [inaudible] paramedic school. I was valedictorian in my class. I spent 16 years as certified paramedic, running 15,000 paramedic calls and doing everything you can imagine with humanity and that whole thing with every 9 1 1 call. Um, and so I got married, had two great kids, but my grandparents passed away in 1996, uh, in, in the 1990s and left a thousand acres of prime agricultural land to me, uh, with my brothers and they didn't want to farm and I didn't want to see dead bodies anymore and stress myself out with no sleep at night. You know, paramedics don't get much sleep. So I had done everything you could imagine as a paramedic. I wasn't an administrator. I was a recruiter. I was a PA, I was a pilot. I wasn't on the rescue team. I was educator. I taught paramedic medicine for the health department. I was pre-med trained. I was deeply into medicine and my wife has her master's degree in nursing. So that kind of sets the kind of the background, the foundation that my heart's kind of in medicine and humanity. Um, but taking over the family farms, I saw my neighbors having feast and famine coasters from hell, literally, uh, with commodity prices and overproduction and all differentiation or value added. And I was really dedicated to helping, helping, and connecting to people. And that's really foundational here. So we developed a raw farm, organic cautious dairy initially for 20 years and now raw farm as a brand of that kind of concept and business. And that was, we were going to listen to the consumers and we were going to take care of people, not processors. So when you do that, everything changes. So I interviewed moms in LA at farmer's markets, as in what would you want in a dairy product? Because I wanted to build value added out of the feed. We produce the organic feeds. We produce putting our own cows and our own milk and our own brand and have the entire food chain under our control. Instead of being out of control at the commodity markets where they do pasteurization modularization, and every other thing to your mouth, I wanted to have food that was actually representative of me and what our consumers want it. So I went to Los Angeles and they did moms and they said, well, if you're a farmer, we want you to be non-GMO. We don't want any Roundup anywhere near this food. Uh, we want it to be specified side free. We want it to be hormone-free. We want to use organic practices. We want to be able to visit you. We want to know that this food comes from you. We want to trust you and know your family. And by the way, we want it raw. We want it delicious, and we want it safe. So, wow. What a combination of great elements to put together and over the last 22 years or so, that's exactly what we've done. And it's grown rapidly. It's grown with a lot of very close connections to people, including movie stars. Um, you know, Tori spelling loves our products. So it's very exciting to see the greater and greater good happening by just matching dairy products with what consumers really want, ease of digestion, no lactose intolerance good for their gut. And by the way, the short list or the long list, I should say of all the benefits of raw dairy are the benefits of breastfeeding literally. And there's no contention, there's no dispute the world health organization, the FDA, the USDA, the NIH, CDC doctors. I don't care who you are. They all say, breastfeed your babies, please, please, please. Well, that's raw milk. So yes, there are a few more benefits to breastfeeding than there are consuming raw milk, but the list is almost identical. So extremely exciting. I'm a very, science-based kind of guy, a lot of pub med, a lot of units, university relationships. So UC Davis and the milk genomics people, and I've been doing that for 12 years now. So I really wanted to know our products well and understand how it interfaced with our own microbiome, our own bodies and how that matchup up was so important. And that is probably a pretty good segue into the foundations of raw farm and our consumer connection and the biophysiological microbiome, human genome connection that whole real foods make and how it's so good for our immune systems. And so good to support our gut, which is the seed of our immune system. So, um, that's kind of a, a start of, of why we did what we did. Yeah. There's plenty to go into there. And I am, I am a huge advocate of gut health and the connection to the microbiome and how the microbiome impacts everything from emotional health to behavioral health and our immune system. Like you said, literally it's connect. I call it the first brain and I tell people, worms don't have actual brains. They only have their guts. So you can live off of your gut. And it's really interesting because the three systems in our body, right, our brain, our heart and our gut and the heart and the brain get all of the clout. They're so cool. They do all this, but the gut is the only organ, um, system that is connected to the external world and everything that our gut takes in then impacts the heart and the brain. So just, you know, I think it's a very underrated Oregon and I'm a super fan of the gut. If you know, the gut was a human, I would go to all of its concerts and be it's groupie. But, um, you know, this is, and it shouldn't be, but this is going to be a kind of controversial of media out there that draws fear around raw milk. Um, so to jumpstart, this, I would love for you to kind of share some myths and misconceptions about raw milk. And then we'll dive into all of the science that you You're going to find that I absolutely completely acknowledge that there's been some dark periods, raw milk in history, the world history, but the history goes back 10 to 12,000 years in the bright story actually started 50,000 years ago or maybe longer. Um, the science tells us that they found all kinds of evidence that babies were drinking, goats, bell, cows, milk, reindeer, milk, horse, milk, camel's milk. Uh, 15,000 years ago, they found a little vessels that showed this, uh, the various different sugars, the oligosaccharides and sugars and stuff, lactose sugars found in these vessels. So it's been a long, long process where humans have connected to other mammals for substance. And the reason why, um, when you have a cow or a horse sheep, a mammal, and you get melt from them, you don't have to hunt fish or farm. You have all the food you need right there. You have fluid milk. You have Kathir, you've got butter, you've got cheese, you've got all this stuff right there. And by the way, you can sustain yourself almost wholly by that, because it's a whole food. If you think about babies, they don't have anything except for mom, that's it. And mankind can survive. And what's interesting about that is it was a competitive advantage. If you look at the UC Davis studies on the, the, the genomics of mankind and the evolution of Mary mankind, milk played a big role in competitiveness for, for early communities so that we had a whole food and ended up to starve all the time. Cause proved advanced, starved a lot. And so very much foundationally it is. But if you bring this forward to, uh, 1850s, let's say the 1850s, and you go to downtown New York, Boston, Philadelphia, even, um, you know, Moscow in, in, in, in London, in England. And you had cows being brought into the cities and there are no pastors there. And the cows pooped and peed, and the people had to Brookie losis. And by the way, there was no good feet. They were feeding them brewers, distillers, grains, and the milk was not good. Um, 50% of the people that consume that milk died, it was horrendous. That was called the milk problem. And it happened in the mid 18. Hundreds of people started bringing their cows into the cities and didn't have the, the country conditions of fresh water, sunlight, and pastures. And so the milk that was out in the country, it was brought into Mayo clinic was used to heal the world, but the milk and the downtown brewery distillery berries was killing people left. And right. So in 1893, uh, Strauss brought in the idea of par boiling, which was boiling the heck out of the milk to kill the bacteria. And what do you know, overnight? 40% of the people didn't die anymore because they kill all this terrible bacteria, but they still had problems with water quality. At the same time, there was a doctor [inaudible] who was a pediatrician who lost it, uh, uh, uh, a child to, to Rommel consumption, developed the American association of medical milk commissions. And that was an association of doctors that would go supervise the production of milk, good quality milk with the right kind of conditions. And that milk was used to heal people until the 1970s and eighties. Um, the American the most, in fact, Altadena in Los Angeles was the last certified raw milk producer with the American association of medical milk commissions, which started in 1893. So it lasted about 106 or so, but then it kind of died off. Um, so the history of raw milk has that dark period. But when we, we understand that you have to have a healthy cow being fed the right foods in the right conditions and sunshine and pastures and being supplemented properly. And you have a healthy cow and you take that milk and you milk her properly. In other words, clean utters without a bunch of manure on it. And you take that milk and you rapidly chill it and you test it, you have an extremely low risk, very high value, wonderfully safe food. And that's the combination of all these historical things you put together plus modern science. And that's exactly what raw farms does. And so it's amazing, you know, we rarely, rarely ever find pathogens that our milk rarely. And when we do, we're able to use rapid testing to find out before the product gets to the consumer and it never gets there. So it's a great combination of mother nature's blueprint, plus modern technology to bring food raw milk into the future. And what's interesting about that is the pasteurized Nope, community under the FDA and the pasteurized milk ordinance to PMO. Doesn't like raw milk because when it's done well, it always takes over for pasteurized milk because pasteurized milk is listed as a number one most allergenic food in America at the FDA website, number one, very allergenic along with peanuts and everything else. And it's very hard to digest. A lot of people have lactose intolerance and issues with digestability. We're not sure it's actually lactose intolerance or lactose intolerance, plus other things that happen when you homogenize and pasteurize, because of all the protein denaturing and things that go on it's mass, carnage and chaos, when it comes to taking milk and then cooking it. And the digestive tract just has a hard time with many people, not everyone, but many people. So the FDA really doesn't have a place in their mind for raw milk, everything in their book because they're conducted the conditions they propose for producing raw milk are really unfit for human consumption. The standards don't measure pathogens. They don't worry about sunshine or grass or correct. They're about making lots of milk, super cheap and cooking the heck out of it, kind of what happened in 1893. So it's literally a stickiness of a regulation where they are unwilling to, to evolve and go with the pioneers. There are really kind of 20 years ahead of the time where the FDA just won't recognize trends and evolution and application of their own technologies. Like the testing we use BACS PCR, which is an FDA approved test. They use for vegetables and ground beef all the time. Well, we've applied it to raw milk. So the FDA is lagging a little bit in terms of saying, this is really good for the gut. It's really good for everything, all the things you say about breastfeeding, all these So it makes us a true pioneer. And we try to get rid of all that background noise to the FDA and connect directly to people and just build market and prove ourselves. And that's precisely what Roth farms is doing. So your, your opening comment about the fact that Rama can be dangerous is absolutely true. However, it's out of context in terms of what kind of raw milk you're talking about when you're talking about Rama for human consumption, using the right kind of conditions, healthy cows, rapid chilling and testing completely out of context incorrect. But when you talk about raw milk intended for pasteurization, that is correct. So you have to get context to understand what we're talking about, and that's why it's a little bit contradictory right now, and inflammatory and discussion because nobody really understands rom up for human consumption. They understand rom up, which is dirty and professed to be terrible, terrible has to be pasteurized, which is true. So you have to get context and there's more and more raw milk going on right now in the world and the raw milk Institute, which I'm part of, uh, is training farmers all over the world who use the kind of technologies we're using and raw milk is emerging without the illnesses or outbreaks, which is really, really exciting. So that's kind of an answer, I think to that question. No, I, that was a, that was a great answer. Um, and I am a raw milk advocate as long as you're getting it from the right source. But based off of all of that, there's kind of two topics that we need to go into. I think first is the environmental factors and it seems so obvious to you and I from our backgrounds and our experience, why sun and what cows are fed and the kind of grass that they're grazing on impact the quality of the milk and, um, any other byproducts from an animal. But I don't think a lot of people do fully understand what a big impact that makes. And then the second part is pasteurization and what that is and what it does to the milk. So let's start with the, um, former, uh, regarding the environmental factors for cows and, you know, specifically, I think people are becoming more educated in, you know, what you feed cows. And if you use antibiotics and hormones on cows, how that's going to impact the product. You know, I remember reading a story that a truck fell over on a freeway somewhere, and it was headed to a dairy farm and it was filled with Skittles. You know, this was the food that was going to be fed cows that were going to consume that meat and that milk, which is disgusting. So I'd love just from your background for you to dive into why those components of how they live, what they're fed, how often they have, you know, access to sun or other environmental factors impacts the actual food that we get from. Them. Lauren, let me get this straight. You don't like your cows being fed doughnuts and Skittles, is that right? You know, I can't imagine that they're enjoying their life after they eat Skittles and donuts either. Right? Well, you make a very good point and that is what the cows eat and the conditions they're kept in impacts their health, their body condition, your immune system status, whether they produce pathogens or not in their gut, um, and the quality of the milk, the fat content, protein content. So it's just like us, whatever we eat, that's how we present. And the same thing with the cows for virtually the same sunshine, vitamin D thank you very much. Uh, very, very important. It drives the grass. It's part of it, the external microbiome microbiome of earth. So the cows are connected to that. In fact, they're in that junction there, that link between the sun and us, we can't eat the sun and we can't eat grass. We don't have four stomachs, but cows can. So sunshine drives the grass. You grow water areas. The grass cows can consume that through their rumination and chewing their cut. They make milk, they convert beef and make milk buttercream. So they are that wonderful link between the sunshine and us, which is a very, very, very important food chain leak because we can't eat sun and we can't eat the grass a very important primitive idea. That's really super important. Now we're thinking about global warming. We're thinking about all these things and they also see quest or carbon because pastures are great carbon sink for putting carbon dioxide back in the ground. So car cows are part of the solution, not the problem. When you have a pasture involved. Now, there are some places where there's not a lot of pasture, but if you have a cow outside in the sunshine, in the pasture she can have, and you supplement her with appropriate feeds, like, you know, non-GMO alfalfa or, uh, barley, whatever it might be that you can find in your local environment that certainly doesn't have any Roundup on it. That's so important because Roundup is a toxic, toxic, toxic chemical. That's an antibiotic, and it really screws up our systems in our bodies. And there hasn't been enough research to really understand the full implications of Roundup, plenty. Of lawsuits, but, you know. That's it. Yeah, that's all right. But the bottom line is nobody has the money to, to go in and, and the grants come from industry and industries. Monsanto is not going to give and buy. Our beer is not going to give a bunch of money to a university to come, uh, figure out what's wrong with Roundup. But the bottom line is hormones disrupt the cow's ability to normally synchronize herself, BB, uh, appropriate in her milk production antibiotics, totally screw up her gut and our ability to digest food and have an immune system that functions in, uh, in, in, in humans, the biological diversity, the bacterial diversity of the gut is probably 70 to 80, maybe even higher percentage of our immune system function. The more diversity and the more food you have to feed that diversity, the healthier you are, and the more protected you are from outside threats, we are, you know, if you look at the work done in the human genome, we have a tremendous amount of bandwidth in our immune system. That's associated with biological diversity and that bacterial DNA literally drives our immune system to function properly and And we can really get into that with Dr. Bonnie Bowser's work at MIT and all that stuff. It's only been around for 18 to 20 years, but yet we are so stuck in the paradigm of sterilizing everything. Now we're in an auto immune mess because our immunities is defined by the loss of that biological diversity and inflammation taking because we're too clean, right? And that's not to say that clean is bad. There's a way of saying clean. And that is, we want to have normal foods that are not adulterated in some way, that's clean eating. But the fact that when our bodies become too sterilized and we lose our, our biological bandwidth or our bacterial DNA, uh, uh, foundations, we actually become auto-immune Nessus. And we see that now. And when you replace it, autoimmunity gets better. So anyway, um, the second question I think you had was about pasteurization does well, what it does is a wholesale destruction of bacteria, and it does it by heat. And what happens if you have a cell and it gets licensed by heat is so membrane breaks open. So you have the internal cell contents spilled all over the milk. So you don't look how bacteria that are intact. You have pieces of bacteria all over inside the milk. And this bacteria comes from these big keto operations that don't really care about bacteria too much, because pasteurization is right? Good and bad bacteria are all destroyed. And most Aren't good. There are some bad down in, in milks that are produced in bad conditions and these And by the way, you may have 50 different areas combining a one milk tank at a Creamery. So you have no idea what's going on in terms of any kind of integrity of bacterial good goodness going on. So that three is destroyed by heating and lysing, which means it breaks open all the cellular contents, mitochondria, everything goes crazy everywhere. And when you drink it, guess what your body sees that as, oh my gosh, that's pieces of bacteria. Get rid of that. You hold have a whole mucus response, trying to get your mantra fathers together to get all that crap out of you because it doesn't belong there. Your body is made up of living cells, not dead cells that cells are waste. Uh, so would you got is a real problem. That's what makes it so allergenic and also just reactive in terms of causing inflammation in many people, especially just pasteurized milk yogurts, not so much, but pasteurized milk, for sure. So pasteurization destroys the bacteria, inactivate enzymes, important ones, even enzymes like alkaline phosphatase, which is very, very anti-inflammatory and found mostly on the butterfat cells. That's why raw butter is so incredibly powerful as a superfood cause it's got 86% butterfat, not 4% butterfat. And the alkaline phosphatase goes to that butterfat and is preserved when not heated, but the enzymes are deactivated. Um, in, in, in denatured, in pasteurized dairy products and the proteins, the functional proteins are denatured and lost folkies play all kinds of important roles in driving our bodies to do things the right way. Uh, there's tons of functional proteins, the micro RNA and all kinds of things that happen in breast milk that actually help our bodies function properly and do the right things in our body. Well, those proteins are destroyed and pasteurized milk. So it's basically a dead dumb food, a dead dumb food that just got a lot of he's got carbs and sugar. And that's it. The proteins may or may not be helpful based on the fact that they're denatured. Uh, it definitely does have proteins, especially the casein proteins were not denatured as much as the whey proteins. The whey proteins are very, very, anti-inflammatory. There's a mountain of evidence out of Europe now showing that whey protein stabilize mass cells and keep allergies and control and reduce asthma. So weight proteins are super important and found as a major protein down in, in raw milk. So it's just a pile of things that happen when you heat milk to 150 to 180 degrees, or even 280 degrees on ultra high temperature pasteurization. Um, that is very destructive. Can you ever imagine your, in your mind ever heating a blending fusion, uh, before getting a blood fusion? No, it's be crazy. Milk has more of a serum of the body versus, uh, something that you would want to cook like a potato, which is toxic when raw, but just fine if you cook it. So there are foods you eat raw and raw milk is one of them. Yeah. I mean, one other step that you didn't go into is infusing it back with vitamins, right? Synthetic vitamins, and these vitamins are not the same as the vitamins we get from whole food sources or from raw milk. They are synthetic and vitamins and our body does not recognize them as they do vitamins and whole foods. And so they are not used the same. So all of these cartons that say like good for your bones and, you know, vitamin D and vitamin a vitamin K like, no, it's not the same thing. I. Attended an international amount genomics consortium conference in Denmark, our whose Denmark in 2019. And one of the big things that Europe is working on that we're nowhere even close to looking at is the bioavailability, uh, ratings of food. When you eat food, what is it actually delivering to you? And how's it working with your own biome and, and what's the rating of bioavailability. You might give me any good vitamin, but are you utilizing it? Are you getting a mineral that's actually going to go to your bones or just pass through your boop? Well. Wouldn't that be so different for everyone though, depending on their mineral deficiencies and enzyme deficiencies and all of that, which though I want to mention is so dependent on diversity of bacteria you have in your gut, you can have an allergy and start taking probiotics. And over time that allergy subsides subsides, because you cultivate the strain of bacteria that allows you to eat that kind of food. And so it's all just, you know, it's a big circle. This accommodation, and you're exactly right. Each of us have our own experiences in life, your own DNA, our own, uh, parental, you know, tradition of what's gone on in our bodies for a long time and sensitivities. And you're right. You can't just out one thing for everybody. Uh, you can kind of have general things that work for everybody, but you're exactly right, that there's sensitivities, that certain people have that other people don't, depending on how much antibiotics they have, their life, their DNA, there's a million things. So, or simple simplification of this can be dangerous. But at the same time, uh, there are some simple truths and that is whole foods are nourishing and supportive of your immune system, but what is a whole food and what is nutrient dense food? And what's biologically intact food, what's enzyme, rich foods, those things we can certainly talk about. Uh, it's interesting to note that the USDA in their dietary guidelines talk ad nauseum about consuming nutrient dense foods that are less processed with fewer ingredients. Duh, we're talking about it right now, guys, but yet they won't come out and say raw milk, but yet they do. If you look at the logo of their opening page at the, it's got a mother breastfeeding her baby, and they strongly encourage breastfeeding, breastfeeding, breastfeeding. So they tip their hat a little bit, but politically it's incorrect to talk anything bad about pasteurized brands, because it is it's the basics of safety in America with they failed to understand that we can go beyond that and do better than that, um, in the future, we really can. Yeah. I think it's interesting that you bring up breastfeeding because I wanted to draw a comparison for listeners who are potentially listening, but still a little confused about how all of this works. And if you think about breastfeeding, right, a mother is passing a milk onto their baby, but they're also PA passing all the bacteria that's living in their body, the good and the bad onto their baby. And that's why doctors are so vigilant in supplementing certain things or eating a clean diet because the environment of your body impacts the milk that you pass on to that baby, which is going to impact their gut health and how they show up in this world. And you can make the same comparison of cow milk to humans. The environment that the cow lives in is going to impact the milk that they produce, which is going that energy, that bacteria viruses, fungi, which we assimilate as bad in this world, even though our body is made up of more bacteria, fungi and viruses than it is cells at this moment. Um, all of that is passed on from the cow to us as well. So if you can think about breastfeeding and how that impacts a child's, you can think about cows and how having healthy cows would impact humans. It's basically the same thing. We, we always say this Lauren, we say we don't ever sell raw milk. We teach raw milk because if you can explain to a mother or a family, the process of giving birth to their baby and the claustrum and the milk, and that may be the most vulnerable time in their life. When they're first born, their immune system is very, it's absent 80% absent because they no longer have the protective, a woman with the mother and the umbilical cord. They're not in the network, they're not out in the big, bad world. And what does rom up dupe and claustrum do it builds the gut microbiome. And what does all the birth canal Jesus do? It acts as the initial inoculum for that, for the gut microbiome, as you know, that's the establishment of the first protective system and rom is a nourishing and protecting food. And it creates the mucosal layer in the intestines and things that are very protective and that are missing and a lot of children today. Um, and it seals up the leaky gut and does all kinds of stuff to nourish and also protect the bacteria, the bifido bacteria and the oligosaccharide sugars first six to eight months of life to protect the baby from pathogens. So even though pathogens may get into babies, guess what? They don't get sick from them from mother's milk. Mother's milk is not clean and pure. It's purely wonderful for mother, but it has a biodiversity in it which reflects the mother's, uh, her own health and her skin. And those bacteria actually play a very important role in, in training the immune system of the baby to not get sick from them because the mom helps them create antibodies and they create antibodies based on the matrix. So that wonderful whole food that mom gives them. So we really, really reduce this conversation into some really not appropriate things. And that is, oh, how much sugar are you getting? How many minerals to get and how many fats you get versus the whole food, which is a combination of all those things, working together to enhance our health and protect us. And this is about a whole food, which is an incredibly complex, wonderful prebiotic probiotic and post biotic what's postbiotics postbiotics is the result of it's the bacterial poop. It's the metabolites of the system of prebiotics and probiotics working together, the food that feedback curate and bacteria working together creates all these metabolites, these waste products, which are actually building blocks for health, and they are your body. Can't scramble to get these little micronutrients. They need to actually build things that function properly. So we're really, really, really screwed up right now in America that, um, we're not thinking about whole food nutrition in a broader sense of promoting it. Instead, we're popping pills and doing all kinds of crazy stuff, uh, with pharmaceutical stuff and the FDA won't let us talk about hopefully be efficient in the way we should. And the science, because it's so disruptive in terms of their medical claims means a drug approval. If you have any medical claims you're making out of food, they require that you had a drug approval from the FDA, which takes tens of millions of dollars in 10 years to get virtually impossible. But yet you can't, unless. You pay more money than you can speed up the process. If you've got the dollars, you can make it happen. But then, then they, they offer sequester medical foods into a prescribed pharmaceutical area. You get to get a drug store. Uh, it's, it's really crazy. We have to change our paradigm from sickness to wellness and prevention. And there is a place for modern medicine. I absolutely believe in that a hundred percent he got shot or stabbed her car wreck or whatever burn. You need a trauma center and you need drugs. You need any surgery, but when it comes to chronic inflammation in your body, those drugs and surgeries have very little to do with it. They may have worked, but it's a small part versus the preventative part, which is literally farmers over pharmacies. When it comes to prevention through nutrition, Hippocrates all disease begins in the gut and that food, food, or medicine and medicine to your food. And that was 2,400 years ago. So we've lost some real, real intellect in this world and tell you, it's not helping. I feel like you and I need to start a podcast together where we just rant on about all of it. But, um, I love that you also, I want to dive into the actual health benefits of the products that you produce, but before we get there, I love that you also brought up the immune system and how the mother's milk is driving the immune system for the baby. And I just want to draw that correlation for listeners and that everyone is born with an innate immune system. So you were born into this world with some kind of immune system, which is impacted by the way you were born. So either through the vaginal canal or through C-section through C-section, you are, you, uh, are exposed to different bacteria or not the bacteria that you need. I was, I was born through C-section it's okay. You can still thrive, but we also have an adaptive immune system. And so everything that we are exposed to from the second we enter this world informs our adaptive immune system. So the things we eat, the way we sanitize our environment, and that's why this over sanitization of our world is such a problem because we have less and less and less exposure to bacteria. And so the diversity of the bacteria in our gut is suffering. And there's millions of scientific studies to show the more diverse of bacteria you have in your gut, the healthier that you are. So. One of my favorite studies on that has to do with looking at children in Malawi, in Africa and how they literally don't have asthma allergies at all. They never other problems, major problems, but they don't have those problems. Their biological diversity is extremely broad, but in America, our biologic diversity is very reduced. And our diets really precipitate that with antibiotics and sugar and yeast and all those kinds of problems going on. And we have lots of allergies and asthma, in fact, 13,000, was it 13 children in a day, die from asthma United States, but yet that's under medical care and, you know, using all my stuff. But yeah, it's, it's, it's really sad. I, uh, learn a lot from the birthing process, a tremendous amount about how our bodies function and those that really want to seek optimal health can look to that. And also the examples of the blue zones around the world where people live to be 80 to 90, a hundred years old without disease. And what they have is basically the Mediterranean diet, which is full fat and all these great unprocessed whole and fermented foods. Yeah. I mean, my biggest pet peeve is this like quality versus quantity thing. Like I low fat, low sugar. I eat low carb. I eat low calorie. It's not quantity. It's quality. What is the quality of your calories? What is the quality of your fat? We really need to flip that script. And it's something I'm always yelling at friends who have children about like their young daughters are saying, oh, it's really low calorie. And I'm like, no, stop that. Don't say that you don't need to make yourself smaller in this world. You need to worry about the quality of the human. You're becoming, not the quantity of space you take up. But I digress, um, before we, well, my that's my tangent for the day before we hop into the specific health benefits of your products, there's only one more thing I want to hit on because I hear a lot of people talk about this. And I even have heard, heard naturopathic doctors say cows milk is not made for humans and they suggest goat milk instead. So what is your opinion on cow versus goat milk and that whole conversation around dairy not being made for humans. For all time, humans have consumed goat, milk, cows, milk, water, Buffalo, milk, reindeer, milk, camel's milk, horse milk, and they have no problem with any of those things. I think where this comes from is the, uh, I'll be brave enough to say this, the ignorance, and then the lack of knowledge and understanding raw milk, um, pasteurized milk, most of it's cow's milk, right? And so when you see all these problems coming from cows milk, you automatically think, oh, cows milk is not good for you, but they're not thinking of raw cow's milk. They're thinking of highly processed cows milk, which triggers all kinds of issues and probably not terribly good for you or at least. Yeah. So I would say that it's mostly ignorance and I bet some doctors that really know what they're talking about and, um, suggest consumption over the mammals milk all the time. Uh, goats, milk, cows milk, of course, milk, whatever. And there's great examples of that around the world. So I would throw that one out. I don't think that's good advice. Great. I like it concise and straight to the point. So now that we have completely drawn the idea that raw milk has everything that you need as a human and is healthy for your body. I do want to dive into the products that raw farm creates for from raw milk. Um, and so you have cheese, butter, Keifer, um, cheese, butter, keeper, and milk, obviously. So which one do you want to dive into first in terms of how it supports all of those microscopic miracles that happen in their body. With one caveat. And that is not a raw mux produced the same Rama contended for human consumption with high standards is a completely different food than pasteurized milk. And that's what we're talking about here is distinctly differentiated milk. And that is let's just start off rot cheese. Now that's a loaded comment. The word raw is not defined by the FDA. So what is Rami welcome me and all kinds of things in the FDA. What it means to me is this food has never been about body temperature. It's ever been about a hundred degrees, 102 degrees. So a Fahrenheit, I should say, not, not Celsius. So when you actually have a raw product, the enzymes are alive. The Auckland phosphatase enzyme, which Dr. JP lawls found out in the French paradox studies done in France, that the French have eaten two and a half pounds of raw cheese a week. And by the way, it's packed with alkaline phosphatase. And you could look at his French paradox study, Dr. G J John Paul laws, 2014. It said, it's the alkaline phosphatase stupid. It's not, it's not the wine. Uh, alkaline phosphatase is an enzyme down, mostly on the raw fat of raw milk. And the interesting thing is in Racita this full fat. Yes. What the alkaline phosphatase is still there because it has indicated. And he found this study found that the, uh, the, um, the anti-inflammatory effect of the mentoring in diet hinged, a lot on these Rockies's and the other wonderful whole foods that people eat and that it wasn't so much the French red wine, which is great. But the bottom line was you'd have to drink a tanker load to get an upper is very tall to have the anti-inflammatory products, a couple pounds of raw cheese, because the alkaline phosphatase is so profoundly important in terms of anti-inflammatory, um, anti illness, anti disease effect in the Mediterranean diet. So that was the French paradox study that was done a long time ago, but it was kind of update going. Let's look deeper at that study because we don't think it's just the red wine. We think it's probably the outcome phosphatase where all the raw cheeses consumed in France. So this tree cheese is actually truly raw. And the word truly I don't use just as a cavalier, a branding concept, we pioneered the use of word truly 17 years ago. We realized that you could have a raw cheese legally sold and branded as raw and have that cheese cooked at 159 degrees Fahrenheit, two degrees below pasteurized and get away with calling it raw cheese, because it's not pasteurized. That's a crock. That's really misleading. And it's very unfortunate because there are a lot of people are making money because raw makes money in the marketplace, but they're, they're going out and buying this really cheap, raw milk with high bacteria counts and all kinds of problems with it. And they're cooking it as high as they can to get rid of that bacterial competition because their cultures for the cheese won't work, instead of using really clean, raw milk in a VAT and not having that problem and using the inoculums at a low temperature to get all the bacteria to grow properly at a hundred degrees, which is the optimal temperature to grow bacteria in your body, you get a, a raw cheeses, not raw. The benefits are found in truly raw cheeses. And there's other brands of rod cheeses, where people do this level of integrity, but there's a lot of raw cheeses that are not. So you have to look, is this truly raw? And I, I did a little study 15 years ago. I called around to a bunch of cheesemakers and I said, is your what's your cheese bat? Temperatures, is it truly raw? And if people hung up on you and got mad, you knew it was fake, but if they've bragged about it said, no, no, we use low temperatures because it preserves all the truly raw. So it is a marketing thing, but it's also a consumer beware thing that you want a truly raw cheese, because it preserves all these wonderful things we've talked about here in terms of, uh, building blocks of life and probiotics and all that stuff. Enzymes are all intact. Anti-inflammatory enzymes, as well as, uh, uh, alkaline phosphatase, which has proven to be a very, very important, uh, disease, preventative kind of thing in your body. So that's raw cheese. It's delicious too. It's great with all kinds of stuff. Before we move on to another product, how would you suggest that consumers identify whether or not it's truly raw? That's a great question, because there's so many protective layers in the marketing systems in America that say, uh, you can't, you try to call the one 800 number and talk to somebody at a big brand. And I can't get anybody. Nobody wants to the phone. Right? You trying to find the address of where the milk came from. Like you'll never find it because it gave them 1800 places. So. Probably red flags right there, though, if you can't talk to anyone, that's a red flag. That is a red flag. It's a raw milk red flag. It's a Rochester red flag, most producers of raw cheddar or raw cheese, whether it be cheddar or not. We'll brag about the fact that it's truly raw because it's about the VAT, temperatures, the temperature of which it's brought up to, to get it, to grow in terms of developing cultures, not die, but grow. And that's where you in Canada, they call it thermalize cheese. And they actually have a midpoint of 130, 140 degrees in America. We don't have that definition. So we have this gray space of 120 to 160 degrees, which is still considered rock because it's not pasteurized. And it's just a chasm of, of bad information there that consumers, if they want to have the good stuff needed to go for a truly raw cheese and ask the hard question of, of the store or the farmer or the maker or wherever they can do it, you have to dig and find out and websites are a good place to do it because they'd brag about the good stuff. And truly raw is a good point. That's great. And I do just want to throw this out. If nothing else, please do not buy orange cheddar. If you think of cow's milk, what color is cow's milk? Your cheddar tea should be white. It should. Be this nice creamy white coming from cows that are munching and crunching on rope down and path and grass and stuff. When. I learned that though, I was like, oh my gosh, duh, like, why do we think orange cheddar teas is natural? That's not natural. There's nothing natural about that. Unless they were fed a bunch of orange Skittles and it just changed the color of their milk. Yeah, there you go. So let's talk about Kiefer because that's something that is not consumed a ton in American communities. I mean, some people drink it more often than not, but let's talk about Kiefer, what it is, how it's made and, uh, why it is a good staple and a diet. Keifer is a cultured milk. And if you think about the history of milk going back, we didn't have refrigeration as primitive people at all. So what you had is milk being put into a gourd from last week and it wasn't washed out. So it had the mother culture from last week or the last month handed down. Um, and it would go in there and it would get warm body temperature, 70, 80 degrees, 90 degrees, and it would actually culture itself out. And then there was also the addition of cultures like the Kiefer grains. Some people would use to have a symbiotic, symbiotic culture of bacteria and east together. But anyway, bottom line is it's cultured milk. It's like a yogurt, except it's never been cooked yogurts cooked first. And then cultured raw milk. Keifer is not ever cooked. It's just raw milk with the additional of cultures, uh, whether that'd be keeper grains, or whether that just be some inoculum from some dirty surface, from an old fat or old vessel of some kind. So it goes back a long ways. In fact, most scientists believe that most raw milk is not consumed raw, uh, fresh, except by the farmer that in fact, it fermented so quickly in 24 hours because of no consumed it in some kind of sour fermented form, but that's the perfect, perfect gut food because it's already pre digested and it's super gut-friendly. And it's got an incredible mountain of good bacteria in it, which is fantastic for the gut. So it's a great, uh, raw milk of the ages, uh, in terms of, uh, fermented raw milk that's in raw form versus a pasteurized form. And it's been known to reduce allergies, eczema, asthma, um, colds, flu, it's got antiviral properties. I mean, it's a super protective, low pH, somewhat a little bit acidic, um, which is good in terms of not growing pathogens. Raw farm has just received authorization from the FDA to make this as a pet food product. We sold across the United States of America. Look for us because we've been able to meet all their criteria as a human consumption safety criteria for the FDA. That's a big nut to crack by the way that we could prove we could make this at, for human consumption levels, but yet labels had pet food. Now remember that raw milk cannot go across state lines because a judge back in 1987, decided that Romoff was too dangerous to go anywhere based on the standards for the pasteurized milk ordinance, uh, and had never visited what we're talking about today. But the rock keeper has been approved for pet food consumption at human consumption standards. In other words, all the, you can drink it. It's the same thing, same product, whether it be labeled for pets, but the cumin is exactly the same product, just a different label. The FDA has approved that. So interesting stuff that it's really good for pets too. Pets are used to eating roadkill. They're not used to eating Purina and Purina, and it's been sterilized and cooked. And as a result, they start having all kinds of autoimmune and inflammatory issues in their gut. And pets are falling apart. Cats and dogs are falling apart because they lack their thought diversity and their gut. Just like. I it's so fascinating that you say that because my dog, um, my youngest one has extreme allergies and being a holistic nutritionist for, you know, humans. I look at his gut microbiome the same way as I do my own. And I'm like, something is wrong with his gut. You know, I'm not just going to give him shots every month from the vet that are just gonna mask his itching symptoms because something is going on. And so right now, all he can eat is fish, but I am going to try to give him some Kiefer and see how that goes. I'm very excited for that. Um, so when you said though that, um, raw milk, can't cross state lines, I may be wrong about this, but I'm in Phoenix. And as I dig back into my memories, um, I do remember only seeing the cubed raw cheddar cheese and the shredded cheddar cheese in sprouts. So is that the only products you're able to supply other states with outside of California? Correct? Unless you have the pet food, uh, the pet food, we were authorized on the raw milk we're authorized in the key fear, and we're also authorized, uh, not butter yet. We're working on that one, but the bottom line is, um, you're correct. In 1987, judge Johnson, a federal judge made a determination and directed the FDA to ban all raw fluid dairy products across state lines. But exempted Rockies could go across state lines if it was aged 60 days, but she screwed up and she included raw butter in the ban, which has a lot of the same characteristics as raw cheese. So there's a big fight right now in the federal courts to allow raw butter, to go across state lines. And the next fight after that will be raw milk based on different standards. But right now you're correct in sprouts, you'll see the raw cheeses, but not any of the other products. And I believe we're right on the precipice of having these brother products being brought in as pet food, uh, for pets and presumably some presumably for people that want to eat like their pets. So if someone goes to your website and, and like, say from Phoenix or New York or Maine, and they try to order some products, they can only order the cheese right now is that they can order. The cheese or they can order the other products as pet food labeled product. Okay. Got it. Good to know. Um, before we start wrapping up this conversation, which, you know, we're going to start our own podcast show and just rift all the time after this. But, uh, I did learn one really interesting thing today about raw milk when I was doing my research. And that was that it doesn't spoil the same way as conventional pasteurized milk. And I thought that was so fascinating. Like you can actually still consume it'll taste more sour, but you can consume the quote unquote spoiled raw milk past it state if you don't mind the taste. Is that just because it is essentially becoming Kiefer. This is spoiled raw milk. Thank you very much. Well, you can transplant that word and use cultured or fermented. Now, if you take pasteurized milk and try to do that same thing, what you've got is sugar there, but you don't have the bite bacteria. They don't have the lactobacillus bacteria bifidobacteria other bacteria. The beneficial bacteria present can actually go and eat the sugar and cause lactic acid to be produced and actually creating cultured product. Right? You need to have that, uh, the sugar, the lactose sugar, ye the lactobacillus bacteria to eat that sugar. You need the acids to be produced. And the living growing process of fermentation to happen to pasteurized milk. Pasteurized milk has got all a dead bacteria, which are not alive and cannot come back to life because they're dead really dead. And then you've got all the sugar and sugar sitting around and you're going, what do I do? What do I eat? Well, there are trace amounts of bacteria that actually cause purification that are from environmental contamination or wherever they may come from. They actually enjoy the sugar and cause all kinds of stuff. You would never want to consume it. That it's highly toxic. Hmm. So much information, such a good interview. I appreciate you sharing all of your wins wisdom. So what did I miss? You know, what does raw farm have coming up for them? What else do consumers need to know when considering whether or not to try raw milk, raw cheese, raw butter. Raw butter is an incredible super food. It's got the Tyrek acid. It's got LORIC acid, it's got vitamin D. It's got all kinds of other vitamins, all bioavailable, and it's got 20 times more, 20 times more alkaline phosphatase enzyme. That really super awesome anti-inflammatory enzyme, This is 86% butterfat and the raw milk over here is only 4% butterfat. So you can take a multiplier and just do the math really quick as it's carried mostly on the butterfat molecule and this, this has 4%, this got 86%. So in tremendous amount of anti-inflammatory properties are very, very good. The saturated fats are very good for absorbing and making bioavailable, bioavailable, other vitamins like in vegetables and things. That's why you always slop a bunch of butter on top of vegetables because those fats are so important to absorb the minerals and bioavailability of the vitamins. So these are fantastic foods and there are more and more being available across the United States at other farms too. Cause we work very hard to educate other farmers on how to do this safely and properly, the right conditions, the right testing. Um, Rick Ghana Fondo LOC, um, which is a local Rama. Gary is listed by the raw milk Institute. I've worked with Rick for uh, Rick England for many years down in, in Phoenix, Arizona. He produces a very high quality raw milk. I know his bacteria counts cause he reports them every there is local raw milk available and our raw milk will be as soon available as pet food across United States. And we were working very hard to overcome this FDA ominous wall, the separates farmers for the consumers. They can get this product because we do want to follow the USDA guidelines to eat nutrient dense whole foods. Yeah. And so for anyone listening, you can get the raw cheese, um, either shredded or the cube from raw farm, either on their website or in a sprouts. That's where I get mine. Um, and you know, if you want milk or better look into local farmers in your area, give them a call. You could probably go visit their farm and see how they treat their cows and create a relationship with them, which is always really fulfilling as well to know where your food is coming from. But to start wrapping this up, I have three quick hit questions for ya. So the first one is what does having a clean body mean to you? And I didn't send these to you before. So this is just throwing them at ya. Clean body is actually kind of an interesting concept be biologically sterilized. And I would say a clean body is a super healthy microbiome. That's being fed whole food. And that, that means no antibiotics, no hormones, no pesticides, no Roundup, no GMOs, just whole natural foods from good, healthy soils. That's what eating clean means to me. That's great. The second one is, do you have any lifestyle habits that you just couldn't live without. Marshville habits that I couldn't live without? Do you meditate? Do you walk? Do you sit out under the full moon and Howell? I do podcast with Lauren. I really enjoy consumer connection. When people come to the farm connect, I'm also a pilot. So I love escaping to the middle of nowhere in my plane with my wife and grandkids. And I really enjoy, uh, escaping. I just it's sulfur Creek, which is an amazing escape at 7,000 feet. You can only get there by airplane. So I liked that. I also do mission work in Mexico with the fine doctors of mercy. I've been a pilot with them for 30 years. So I really enjoy humanitarian outreach and building purpose in life. I can sleep every night. No, if I died tonight, I I've done something good. And that's really some really value and very restful for me. Are you looking for another child to adopt? Just, just a random question. Um, and last question for ya. Are there any other brands that you really support that you want to give a shout out to. Rick England down in, in, uh, Phoenix, uh, with the Fondo lock brand, they make you buy that brand. Yes, they're fantastic. He's a great guy. Um, and he's done a great job for many years. He reached out to me eight, nine years ago and he came listed by Rami and he's very, very connected. He used to be a conventional dairyman with 3000 cows. It was going bankrupt. And now he's doing quite well with this 40 to 50 brown Swiss. So it's interesting to see how the big Roman empire can collapse and how you can reemerge with the, with the consumer connected raw whole foods and thrive. So yeah, I put a shout out to him. I'd also put a shout out to looking@farmersoverpharmacies.com it's case studies of people recovered using whole food nutrition, uh, from things like Crohn's disease and irritable bowel syndrome, where they were going to have half their intestines remove a surgery and decided to use whole food nutrition and recovered within six months. Fantastic, very compelling case studies that the people tell their stories on video and Rob institute.org Romack institute.org to help people all over the world. Great Britain, Canada, all the United States, Panama New Zealand, Australia. We help people, everyone everywhere to adopt good practices for producing safe, low risk raw milk. So those two things are good links in then raw farm USA. Of course. That's amazing. I will say ever since I have gone on my own health and wellness journey and started eating whole clean foods and understanding what I'm putting on in my body and what ingredients are and consuming raw dairy products. I can't remember the last time I was sick. I have not been sick in a very long time. That is the way your adaptive and innate immune systems work properly to protect yourself and yourself from nearly all threats. I'm not going to say all, but I'll tell you what most, all of them can be, uh, protected. And in this world of a depressed immune systems and compromised immune systems and these weird variants going everywhere. Well, there's always been variants forever and ever, and the whole food nutrition has been that food that's protected us by having a good adaptive immune system, as well as an innate immune system to create that barrier. Uh, along with other practices, we don't want to go breathing in people's faces that have, uh, bad diseases, but at the same time, if you have a, uh, just a modicum of, of care in how you eat and how you protect yourself, you can thrive. Yeah, absolutely. We didn't touch on this, but it's also worth mentioning that, you know, your, um, dopamine and serotonin and happy hormones are created in your gut. So as you're on this journey and you are healing your gut, you actually will be impacting your mental health and emotional health as well. So we didn't touch on that, but yeah. Newly discovered that's the gut brain, the gut brain access, which obviously don't mean a nerve to these wonderful neuro-transmitters are created in your gut and go to your brain. I mean, you feel good, right? That's why you feel good cause your guts feeling well, but there's also the gut lung access was, he's just been newly discovered in terms of the linkage is going from gut lung in terms of lung information, lung inflammation. Uh, I think this points in a very, very Cardinal direction and that is the gut is connected to the entire body. The gut is the seat of our health. So you take really good care of your gut through whole food nutrition. Um, and you will have the, the, the matrix to protect yourself for life. That's really interesting. I literally was just reading a book last night that said that. And I don't know if this is a hundred percent sure. I just read it last night, but your lungs literally grow from your gut, like it sprouts off of your gut. And so if your gut is inflamed, it makes a lot of sense that your lungs would be impacted because of the connection between them. Yep, yep, yep. Yep. Well, I'll tell you one more. Awesome. And anytime you want to get together, I'm ready. I'm ready. Thank you. Well, how can people get in touch with you and the brand and get their hands on some product. Mark@organicpastures.com come tourists here near Fresno, California. And we're looking for more case studies too, of people who've recovered severe or pending disease issues with eating whole food nutrition. We want to tell that story because it's a story that's untold and story that needs to be told, and we don't make any brand references at farmers over pharmacies because it's a, it's a generic expression of, of, uh, of, uh, of education. So it's not considered to be commercial speech so we can get away with doing things like connecting food to medicine without getting in trouble. So there's no brand connections there. Um, and so we really, really want to educate as a foundational step forward in how we can reconnect food to medicine and farmers to consumers. That's great. Uh, given out your personal email there, uh, people can also get you@rawfarmusa.com. You're on Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, all the places. Um, but I appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for taking the time. This was wonderful. Credit goes out to my daughter, Kaylee, who does a tremendous amount of work on the social networks. And thank you Lauren, for sharing this really important information. That's not conspiracy and it's not out there. It's in here. Hi everyone. I hope you enjoyed that interview. As a reminder, this podcast is for educational purposes. Only. It is not a substitute for professional care from a doctor or otherwise qualified health professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that medical or other health related services. If you're looking for help in your journey, seek out a qualified perfect. If you're looking for help in your journey, seek out we'll see you next time.